Jul 4, 2018
New York Islanders
2nd Favourite Team
Vegas Golden Knights
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This is an interesting proposal. The players going to WPG don't really affect the Isles going forward, but the overall value is essentially 3, maybe 4 1st round picks for Ehlers... which seems like a lot. Wilde is essentially a 1st at this point, the 2020 1st, the 2021 1st (adding Ehlers makes winning the cup much more likey) and then one can argue that the 2020 2nd, JHS and Aho would constitute a 4th 1st rounder.
With the Buff situation being resolved now, I'd try and swap out Aho (Isles will need a LHD with Pelech out for the year) for Boychuk. Gives WPG a Buff replacement and evens out the Salaries for next year since the Isles will need to sign Barzal, Pulock and Toews. Regardless, salary needs to go back to WPG to make this trade work long term for the Isles (Boychuk, Ladd, Komarov, Hickey, etc).
But honestly, I wouldn't be too upset if what you posted happened. It's a lot to give up, but Ehlers is the type of scorer we need.
Isles say No on both trades. Leddy is the old Leddy this year, but with added solid D now. He's on pace for his usual 40+ points and currently is a plus 6 (normally around 0 or slightly under for his career). If anything, the picks need to be flipped in the deal, Isles should not be adding the better pick along with Leddy for someone like Tatar.
As for the OTT trade, I don't mind going after JGP for the 3C spot, but I would absolutely NOT give up a 1st rounder for him, especially given he would only be a rental here (Isles have Koivula penciled in that 3C spot next year for sure). I realize JGP is playing really well right now, but his career numbers says this year is a bit of a fluke, not giving up a 1st for that when the first can be used to get someone better (probably.)
Lastly, Komarov is NOT the reason the Isles are struggling after their incredible run. They are struggling because Trotz broke up the Lee-Barzal-Bailey line to put Eberle back on the 1RW (which coincidentally coincided with Komarov's return as well). That line was firing on cylinders during the hot streak, and funny enough once Trotz put them back together and put Eberle in the 3RW spot they Isles played better. It's been proven with advanced stats that Bailey makes Lee better, so it's no coincidence that when Bailey was taken off that line, Lee went into his drought and once Bailey was put back there he started scoring again.
The lines should be...
Actually, I'd really like to see them switch Cizikas and Koivula till the kid gets his feet wet, but I know they won't break up that 4th line.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Isles777</b></div><div>I kind of feel bad for you - it’s ok to criticize anyone or have your own opinion on anyone in the NHL (whether that be coaches, GM, players etc) while still acknowledging they are masters of their craft. Man you are soft.
The reason why dobson is being kept in the NHL is because of his own development curve! Yes he would be in the AHL due the amount of NHL caliber Dman on the roster. Yes Dobson is ready to be a regular in the NHL (see above why he isn’t playing). You’re trying to make an argument for an ELC slide at the expense of his development. I’m not for sending him back to juniors because again, it’s not great for his development, but it is 100% more beneficial sending him back to juniors than letting him practice with the team. He needs to play in actual games! Your argument shows you know absolutely nothing about the development of players and you’re showing your ignorance by doubling down on it. Wtf man lol
Service time (less than 40 games) + proper development > ELC slide. This is the most bizarre argument I’ve ever seen on this site.
There’s a reason why the islanders (and every other team) won’t have a skilled player as a 13 F because they’d rather him play in GAMES and know that by just practicing with the team, it doesn’t do much for his development. It’s the same thing with Dobson (with the exception that he can’t play in Bridgeport). Isles organization knows that they can’t sit Dobson for most of the season and Lou lamoriello acknowledged that Dobson will get more playing time as the season goes on (Sirius radio)
I would love to bet you on this , but you won’t do it.</div></div>
Ok, first off, I'm not arguing that I think it's what the Isles SHOULD do, I'm not even arguing that I think it's something they ARE doing... I simply posited it as a possible idea given the fact that next season and going forward, the Isles are going to be in a CAP situation especially more so now with the way Barzal, Pulock and Toews are all playing this season. Not to mention the breakout season Beau is having and that he will need a new contract as well after next season.
As for you assertion of me doubling down, I simply gave rational reasons for why it's possible the team might do this, again, never said it was what I want them to do or think they should do (in fact I've said the opposite many times). You're the one who took it as gospel and attacked me for having an idea, so, really, who's the soft one here? Can't even fathom an idea that's different from yours, given that you think you know everything and are only on here seeking attention.
And you're right, I'm not going to bet you on this.. because AGAIN, IT'S NOT WHAT I WANT THEM TO DO BUT ONLY A THOUGHT I HAD BASED ON THEIR CURRENT USE OF DOBSON... just in case you had a hard time following simple logic and fundamental reading comprehension... smh.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Isles777</b></div><div>You’re comparing a washed up 7th D to one of the best D prospects in the NHL? Lou lamoriello and Barry trotz are masters at their craft, and they are for sure not putting an ELC slide over the development of a top prospect. The best hockey executives put development first, making moves strictly on an ELC slide is reckless. If you do your research on development of players in their D+2, D+3 seasons, playing in games is crucial for their development. Basically, it would be better served if Dobson was being run into the ground by his junior team than sitting out 73 of 82 games.
Lou lamoriello did not keep Dobson around (for development purposes) only to have him play in 9 games. If he really cared about the ELC slide that much, he would have sent him back to juniors already, which he already says he has no plans to do so (on Sirius radio a few weeks ago). The only reason dobson isn’t playing is because of this insane streak they’re on and no ones playing bad enough to be taken out. This isn’t going to last forever, and Dobson will get more games
There is a 0% chance of it happening, it’s never happened to any top prospect in the last 10 years, and the islanders will not be the first. Isles are getting lucky with their D corps staying healthy/avoiding long term injuries for the most part. Unfortunately that doesn’t last forever and I’m sure one of boychuk/mayfield will suffer an injury that keeps them out 4-6 weeks</div></div>
This is funny coming from you, someone who has been criticizing both Lou and Trotz for the roster management ALL SEASON LONG! The thing is this, IF Dobson was AHL eligible they would have sent him to the AHL because our D is stacked right now... the problem is they can't. The next best thing is to have him on the NHL roster learning from NHL players and All-Star coaches on a day to day basis, rather than creating bad habits playing in a league he dominated two years in a row.
It's pretty clear by their use of him they don't want him playing everyday, if you're not going to play him 60-80 games, there is no point in burning an ELC year if you don't need to. In fact, if it wasn't for Leddy being out a couple of games earlier, Dobson is probably only at 3-4 games played instead of 6. And if you don't think an All-Star coach and HOF GM aren't figuring out ways to work the CAP for the next 3 years until some of the big contracts are off the books, knowing they have to pay Barzal, Toews and Pulock next season... then you're an imbecile.
The Sbisa comparison was simply to state that it's something the Isles have done in recent years, have a 7th D play 9 games a season.. not a comparison between Sbisa/Dobson. And I never said they were putting an ELC slide OVER Dobson development. They may feel his development won't be impacted by being a 7th D who practices and trains with the NHL club and plays a handful of NHL games, as much as it would be by him playing a full season in Juniors again and developing bad habits.
Again, I am NOT saying this is what I want them to do or think they should do... simply stating that with the way they are using Dobson, barring injuries/trades I'd be VERY surprised to see him play more than the 9 game maximum to extend is ELC another year.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>AndrewLadd</b></div><div>Ew that would F up his development tho</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Isles777</b></div><div>That would be absolutely brutal for his development. I guarantee this has nothing to do with his ELC slide. Sending him back to juniors is bad enough, having him sit in the press box for 73 of the 82 games would set him back. More likely he will play between 35-39 games (under 40 games goes towards service time so isles have an extra year of control)
Within the next 2-3 weeks, one of boychuk/mayfield will go down with an injury. It’s inevitable with their style of play and Dobson will get his shot.</div></div>
I'm not saying it's a good idea or what I want to happen. But Dobson is playing once every couple of weeks at this point. He's played 6 games through the first 21 and two of those games were only because Leddy was out for two games. Sbisa played 9 games over the course of an entire season 2 years ago when the Isles D was healthy all year, so it's not out of the realm of possibility.
They could chalk it up to him not being able to play in the AHL, so they want him to practice as much as possible with the team and sporadically get into game action. Also, think of it this way, 3 more years at ELC price would make Dobson an RFA right when Leddy, Boychuk, Hickey and Ladd's deals all expire (assuming any of them are still here) meaning they'd be able to lock him up long term at that point. Add in the fact that Barzal, Pulock and Toews are probably all going to make more than everyone thought last year, I could see it happen.
Again, not what I want or think is best for him, but to say there is a 0% chance it happens (barring injuries/trades) is a bit ridiculous.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Warrior24</b></div><div>Barzal- Agree, 10-11 is to much. I think Aho should be used as the template for Barzal's contract, 8.5X5, or 9X7.
Pulock- I know he is our #1 and right now playing great D, but if his points total do not increase may be able to get him cheaper. I think 6x6 for him.
Toews- I think that is spot on, 5m at either 7 or 8 years.
Agreed on not signing Granlund, he is a good player but Brassard just fits this roster well right now and you can see how good he, Beau and Nelson are together.
The concern is the wasted cap right now:
Hickey- Can he be moved at full salary, or become the 7 next year if Leddy is moved.
Ladd- Is he going to be OK playing in the AHL, look to retire, etc.
Leo- He is just back from his illness but already getting scratched, and it looks like Martin is back tonight.
That is $11m ($8.85 with Ladd and Hickey in minors) in dead space for 3 years.</div></div>
I like the Aho contract as a comparison, but gotta think after the JT situation the Isles are going to want Barzal locked up long term (max 8 years) to avoid the risk of the face of the franchise leaving again. If it takes 10m to go 8 years, I have no problem giving him that, but if the ask starts to approach 11m that's gonna get crazy (I don't think it will, by the way).
Leddy (having a bounce back year) should be easily movable this offseason and Boychuk (having a 2nd good season in a row) could probably be moved rather easily (some retention or adding a B prospect/mid pick). I'm kind of shocked that with all the teams needing D help right now, neither of those guys have been moved yet. Only thing I can think of is Lou doesn't want to add or subtract right now with how well the team is playing.
I agree Hickey can be moved, but if we move Leddy and Boychuk I'd rather keep Hickey around as the 7th D and go with a Top 6 of Pulock, Pelech, Toews, Mayfield, Aho and Dobson next season, with Wilde getting the first call in the event of injury.
Ladd is a lost cause. Our only hope with him is eventual LTIR or somehow getting Seattle to take him after next season, but that CAP hit (even in the AHL) is going to be tough to maneuver around. As for Komarov, his contract can easily be bought out, if I'm not mistaken.
I don't see Barzal getting 11m AAV. Probably more in the 8-10m AAV range over 8 years. In fact, I can see them settling on 8yrs 72m (9m AAV), which would be fair. Unless he really breaks out and breaks the 90-100 point mark, I can't see him getting more than 10m.
As for Pulock and Toews, AAV is about right, but years are too low for both. Toews should get a Girard type deal, 7yrs 5m AAV (hopefully 8 years though to get him locked up). Pulock I can see getting a Trouba type deal, but less AAV... so maybe 8 years and 6-6.5m AAV.
Lou has already said he envisions Barzal getting term and AAV, while Pulock and Toews would get more years than AAV.
Also, I see no reason for the Granlund signing. Honestly, if he keeps producing as is, I'd rather just re-sign Brassard for 2 more years to be a winger. This also assumes Ladd being on LTIR, which, unfortunately, can't be assumed right now since he's actually playing.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Isles777</b></div><div>If you think bringing up fair points about the current team despite their win streak, I don’t know what to tell you. You nitpick things just to prove a point because it bothers you if one of my posts isn’t straight up praise. Classic confirmation bias. If I was being irrational, sure call me out but there is not one thing I said that is out of line. Trotz decided to bench leo komarov and Johnston last night, so obviously this team has a problem at the center position that can be solved internally. Sorry for bringing that up!</div></div>
My issue isn't with what you say, it's the fact you harp on the same crap over and over to the point it's tiresome. Yes, we all think Komarov isn't a center. Yes, we'd all love to see Dobson and Wahlstrom playing everyday. Yes, we all know Brassard has been better on the wing this year and the Isles need a 3C. But we all don't post the same sh*t every day about it. I have no problem with criticism of the team, in fact, you and I use to have legit back and forths about things we agreed/disagreed with... but now impossible to converse with you because you just harp on the same negative things ALL THE TIME, despite the fact the team is successful.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Isles777</b></div><div>Well, I guess I’m flattered that you came on here just to see what I posted. Thanks! Maybe you should try to and stop conflating your fandom with your identity and then you wouldn’t take it personally when I criticize a facet of the game. Nothing in the description was negative , It just brought up legitimate points. I’m sorry Pointing out that brassard is effective on the wing and the isles need to experiment with a new center is too much for you.</div></div>
Don't flatter yourself buddy. I'm on here every day, saw your posts and decided to check and see what you were criticizing this time. Everything you post is a criticism of the team or the way it's run. As I pointed out, the team is 3rd in the NHL in points, just went 12-0-1 in it's last 13 games and right now is firing on all cylinders, yet you find a way EVERY DAY to post something negative about the team.
We just won a game last night and had a 10 game win streak, yet you come on here and criticize how Komarov should be a bench player and how every move Trotz makes with the roster is the wrong one. Yet, he has the team playing the best hockey I've seen them play in YEARS (even without doing the things you say he should do).
Why are you even a fan? Honestly, I'm curious, if all you do is complain about the team... why even bother watching??
By the way, I'm a die hard Isles fan, yes, however that does not define my identity like you assume. I've been a fan of the team my entire life, I've complained and criticized the team when they were bad (the Snow years) but this isn't the Garth Snow run team anymore. The team is actually run by competent Hockey people now and is striving under that leadership, even though you don't agree with all their decisions or think you know better than a HOF GM and Coach... that's the issue I take. The team you root for is FINALLY successful and playing amazing hockey over the last 2 seasons, yet all you do is **** about Leo Komarov playing center, or how Trotz doesn't treat young players fairly, or how Wahlstrom should be playing Top 6 minutes (when he hasn't proved he should be)... it's old, tiring and doesn't add anything to discussions about the team.
lol... Varly has been anything but bad. Isles were up 3-0 going into the 3rd against the Pens, that 3rd period collapse was an entire team and D collapse, but sure blame Varlamov for the entire team crapping the bed. Last night, the only goal he MAYBE should have had, was the Holl goal and even then, TWO Isles defenseman skated right past a loose puck in front of the net and let Holl pick up the rebound. You could actually see Varly hesitate going for the puck because he saw two of his own guys there and then had to recover and try and get across the net.
As for the Tavares goal, it was a bouncing puck that no one could coral and JT got a stick on it and deflected it in... but sure, blame Varly for that one too. Another hot take here, buddy... smh.
Lets not forget, it took both Greiss and Lehner a good 2 months last season to become the elite goalies they were. They both struggled for much of Oct/Nov and then started figuring it out and getting hot around Dec (when our hot streak started). Varly has adapted to our system much quicker than either of them did last year, but yes, still has some wrinkles to clean up... But saying he needs to be benched or has been "bad" is just ridiculous.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Isles777</b></div><div>Nitpicking stats? Or presenting a logical argument that there is no reason to play komarov at center (when most of his shifts are in the dzone) against a team that has a lethal offense. There is statistically nothing even average about Leo komarovs game 5v5. The only reason Leo Komarov is in the lineup is because he is good on the pk and "locker room presence" . The islanders may be using him in a 3rd line role, but he is not effective in that role so what's the point. I guess we can start calling kuhnhackl a 1st line winger. This season his CF% rel is -9.8, which means 9.8 shots more per 60 minutes at even strength ice time were directed at the islanders net when komarov was on the ice . Once brassard and beauvillier were without Komarov, their Cf% rel increased despite playing against tougher competition. Last season komarovs CF % rel was a -4.7, so same story. He's a liability 5 v5 and that's not a secret. He continuously puts himself in bad spots and gets out of it by A. using his strength to win a puck battle and dump the puck out of the zone giving it back to the other teams defense B. takes a bad penalty C. ices the puck. This has been going on since last season. The islanders a worse team when Leo Komarov is on the ice 5 v 5 (going back to beginning of 18-19 season) and there's nothing you can say to dispute that.
Negative narrative about the team lol buddy take it easy, I just criticized their decision to use someone as center who has proven he can't handle that role. It's not that serious.</div></div>
You criticize EVERY decision they make just because it's not what YOU think they should do. Yet, every decision Trotz and Lou have made have led the Isles to a 2nd place Metro finish last season and advancing to the 2nd round of the playoffs. This season, they just went on a 10 game win streak and are playing better now than they did during their best stretches last season. Offense is up from last season as well. They are scoring just over 3 goals per game this year compared to just over 2.5 last, while the Defense is performing at pretty much the exact same level as last season, as is the goaltending. Not to mention both the PP and PK appear to better this year as well.
Leo Komarov is the least of this teams issues (the few they have). Having him fill in at center for a few games if need be isn't the end of the world, as the team as shown they can win with him in the lineup (he went on IR a few games into the win streak).
There is literally NO reason to be hating on this team the way you do on here EVERY day and EVERY post. This isn't the Garth Snow era anymore, let it go and enjoy the success of the team for crying out loud.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Isles777</b></div><div>If your best center at faceoffs is hurt (cizikas) you do not insert a player who can’t win a faceoff to save his life. That is reckless. For the record, the islanders penalty kill got better once Leo komarov was injured (someone on isles twitter posted the advanced stats and the isles have actually been more aggressive and effective since Leo went down). Also 5 v 5, when Leo komarov is on the ice the team gets peppered with shots, he is not good defensively 5v5 because of his speed and lack of puck control. He is good on the pk but like I said the pk took off once he got injured. You know who else is good in the locker room: lee, bailey, brassard , clutterbuck , boychuk. It’s a really bad excuse to use yet another plug just because of his locker room presence.
This has nothing to do with wahlstrom. If trotz wasn’t going to give him top 6 minutes (even though he deserved it) I wanted him back in Bridgeport. Playing him on the 4th line is horrible for his development.</div></div>
Ok, but you're nitpicking stats to fit your narrative (again). The entire team is different now than they were the first handful of games this season. Barzal is more aggressive now, than the first 5 games. The offense is more engaged now, than the first 5 games of the season. The defense is jumping up more offensively than the first handful of games. Not to mention that if this illness/injury has kept him out this long, it likely was lingering to start the season. You're basing this entire argument on a handful of games this season when he was hurt/sick. Show me the same numbers from last season when Leo was in and out of the lineup and maybe you'll have a point.
But my point remains the same, Komarov has been a 3rd line player for us since he came here last season, which is EXACTLY what he was brought in to do. He hasn't done anything to justify sitting on the bench upon his return from injury. Now, if those numbers you cited continue and the team begins to struggle upon his return, then you may have a case.
All you are doing is feeding your negative narrative about the team because you don't like the idea that certain players are playing over ones you want to play. I've never seen someone complain about a team that has been playing so well over the last season plus as much as you do and for no good reason. Trotz and Lou are two of the best in the game at what they do. They have turned the Isles from a non playoff team to a legit playoff (and maybe SC) contender literally overnight and with the loss of one of our biggest stars... so maybe, just maybe, they actually know what they are doing when it comes to building a team.
As for the Wahlstrom thing, that was in there because for the injured guys to come back others had to be sent down and the most obvious candidates for that were Wahlstrom (needs to be playing top line minutes and, sorry, he was good in the NHL but did NOT deserve playing top line minutes there) and Bardreau (career AHLer before this season).