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Juice

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Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsMar. 18 at 10:00 p.m.
Thread: 50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Its not really backwards when u consider many of the options are in their mid to late 30's or are at most 3c's for 2024 and 2025

Stephenson to me is to much of a gamble and we saw VGK basically just trade for his replacement rather than decide to extend him. Seems a bit odd. To me hes gonna get a deal teams will regret

He was great at 2.75m but considering how meh the C market is someone is gonna be stupid and overpay for him and say here is 6m

Rn the prospects are starting to make noise and it never hurts to leave a spot up for grabs. Its basically what BOS did and it kind of worked. As in the end its always good to keep all options open

Now if you can somehow convince Drai to leave EDM or a good candidate becomes available for trade **** all that lets go lul</div></div>

remember when I specifically said:<em> THis is completely separate from the argument about how much cap you have to spend, what prices will be and how is best to allocate it....or whether you like any of the UFA centres or their likely prices</em> ??

The philosphy of a contending team not signing a UFA that fills a void in your roster because you want to hold that spot open for a prospect that might be able to fill that role in 3+ years is backwards.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsMar. 18 at 4:58 p.m.
Thread: 50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Of course not nobody would do that unless Minten really showed something interesting like Cirelli or Poitras did or if Leafs were extremely tight against the cap

Never should be plan A but also should try not to commit to someone longterm at 2c if he can become an option (unless its Draisaitl)

Maybe u try for a 1 year deal with someone but yea got to keep all options open rather than commit to someone else for years and not giving the prospects a chance

But rn its a wait and see but I am liking what I have seen out of Minten.</div></div>

I just think that's a backwards way of looking at it. If there's a guy available now that you're comfortable with for 3-4 years...you don't NOT sign him because you want to keep the spot open for a 50-50 prospect. If Minten actually pans out...then great...now you have a middle 6 C on an entry level deal.

Same would apply for Cowan...or Niemala....until they show you that they're ready to take a roster spot...you don't intentionally leave a hole in the roster waiting for them to hopefully fill it one day.

Like if they could somehow sign Chandler Stephenson to a good contract...you don't decline that.

THis is completely separate from the argument about how much cap you have to spend, what prices will be and how is best to allocate it....or whether you like any of the UFA centres or their likely prices...just philosophically...you improve the team the best you can and if a young kid emerges...that's bonus and you figure out how to alter the roster later.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsMar. 18 at 4:22 p.m.
Thread: 50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>I find with these guys its a you never know as prospects can all of a sudden go hey check this out

Like Matthew Poitras (same draft year a few spots lower) came out of no where. Minten had a good camp last year and it did earn him a spot granted for a short time but it did help a bit and through watching him his game is only continuing to grow more and more. So its a wait and see but would not surprise me if he possibly forces the issue in a year or two as nothing wrong with integrating some ELC's into the roster.</div></div>

Sure...of course there's examples of guys working out. I'm just saying a competent GM trying to ice a cup contender doesn't make Fraser Minten your Plan A at 2C. I can see them trying to squeeze whatever Tavares has left in the tank for one more year as the 2C and focusing on the blue line this offseason (and, realistically, that's what they should be doing)...but if they could land a guy on a reasonable deal that can plug the 2C whole ahead of time, all the better.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsMar. 18 at 1:42 p.m.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsMar. 18 at 12:28 p.m.
Thread: 50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Leafsfan98</b></div><div>You have 9 guys in the analytics department... Tell one or more of them to watch the game analytically and help Keefe via analytics, <strong>it's simple</strong>

Guess who's the special teams coach and is taking the flack for the lack of adjustments? Boucher

I think having multiple lines being all lefties hurts as well

In the top 9, you have: Matthews (Lefty), Nylander (Righty), Bert (Lefty), JT (Lefty), Domi (Lefty), Knies (Lefty), Holmberg (Lefty), Robertson (Lefty) and McMann (Lefty) filling when needed

8 lefties to 1 righty is an issue and why Jarnkrok playing with Matthews and Bert worked so well with the other lines...</div></div>

So...if I said the analytics guys are giving them the data but, when it's crunch time, Keefe ignores it and goes with his gut...fire him...it's simple.

Does that make me right just because I added "it's simple"?

Also...the inconsistencies on the power play pre-date Boucher...so we can keep going back and blame the assistant running special teams or...at some point...you need to look to the guy who's accountable for the staff and holding the players responsible, too.

I'm not hollering for him to be fired immediately...but I'm not glossing over his glaring shortcomings, either.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsMar. 18 at 9:38 a.m.
Thread: 50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>oneX</b></div><div>Well put.
Adding the no adjustments to your list is just another reason why he isn't the coach that will inspire this team to do the things needed to win, especially in the playoffs.

Edit: I'll even add consistency in effort to the list. They have streches where it looks like they can beat anyone and then have streches where they can't beat anyone.</div></div>

While I don't hate on Keefe to the same extent as some...I definitely agree with the lack of adjusting.

On the one hand...I do feel you need to give certain combos 3 or so games to see if they work. I find whenever he does try something new...it's for 1 game or 1 period....but that's what the first half of the season should be for.

As for the Power Play...again...it's an adjustment thing. Way too simplistic a reaction by some here to say it's simply getting cold...need to get Matthews the puck...guy just need to step up, etc...our PP was absolute fire last month...and teams scout that, prep for it, and scheme up ways to take away the same looks that we had been getting.

Marner being out definitely hurts because he facilitates so well....but there needs to be adjustments....when you see the other coach is taking away what used to be your Plan A....don't keep relying on Plan A...for me, I see Rielly and Nylander looking to tee Matthews up but either the passing lane to him is clogged up or he's forced to receive the pass in a spot where he can't get a good shot off...so move guys around...do something different...then go back to Plan A or Plan C when more adjustments come your way.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsMar. 14 at 9:06 a.m.
Thread: 50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
Sure...I think there's plenty of options they CAN do...of course assuming there's a willing trade partner...impossible for outsiders to really gauge the likelihood or assess what the better option is.

You pay all these scouts to provide you with the info and sometimes it's how hard one scout, or one assistant GM may push for a certain player.

There's also a very real possibility they still trade that 1st round pick for a roster player.

Maybe they aren't in love with anyone where they're selecting and value holding 2025 picks as assets they can use again at the deadline, etc.

My understanding from listening to former GM's or scouts talk about war rooms and draft days....there's different pressures and motives from different people around the table... teams always have their draft boards and they generally want to add players off that board to their farm system. Amateur Scouts will generally be pushing for them to use current picks at the current draft....spending your full time job watching and rating players to then have picks punted away in trades or for other future picks....it's part of the job...and doesn't necessarily undermine it...but they are vested in proving their worth. GM is weighing the pressure of how much they need to win now vs build for the future.

Going just off memory and not really looking into this too deeply...I feel like when a team trades a conditional pick...when one of the sides get to pick whether that draft pick is used this year or next year...most teams take the current pick....I'm recalling Ottawa when they picked Brady Tkachuk.

I also really enjoyed that banter we got to see between Brian Burke and Bryan Murray on the draft floor regarding Nazem Kadri. I think most would agree that Toronto was probably comfortable taking a player a couple spots later and was trying to bait Ottawa into trading up with them but Bryan didn't bite.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsMar. 13 at 9:05 p.m.
Thread: 50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CameronSquires</b></div><div>I think we should drop our late 1st to 2 2nds / 2nd and a high 3rd depending on where they are in the draft order

and trade the 4th to a 5th and a 6th, just so we can have so many 5th round picks, it could give them security to just pick a bunch of guys they like without having to wait till the next round, and also would be entertaining lol</div></div>

I don’t think the strategy is to simply move back to acquire more picks.

You make your draft board. If the guy you like best is likely available 10+ picks later…you move back and try and pick up extra picks.

It’s more about being able to select the guys you like vs just being able to select more guys.

Of course you weigh how much more you like different guys in different spots and if you’re comfortable moving back and going with option 2 later…but there’s a more precise strategy about who you want to select where vs simply just getting more picks and figuring out the rest later
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsMar. 11 at 10:34 a.m.
Thread: 50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
I think everyone acknowledges the shortcomings when it comes to top 4 RHD. Brodie has been one of those spots but took a big step back this year. Previously, there hasn't been a whole lot of wiggle room to add another big d-man that is also a right shot.

I also don't think it's fair to assume that, because Tre didn't address a top 4 RHD at this deadline that it isn't an issue for him that he wants to fix. We know he's been in the D market since the moment he got here.

They tried to re-sign Schenn but it didn't work out
He tried to sign Gudas
Tried to trade for Zadorov and Tanev

My estimation is that he simply wasn't willing to give up the few assets we have to make a more substantial acquisition this year. I'd like to assume he just didn't want to pay the prices and is hoping to do the bulk of his remodeling this off-season.

I still hold that there wasn't anything that was traded at this deadline that would have been worth the price paid AND would have made a significant impact on a playoff run. I'd like to hope Tre was just as frustrated as we were to not be able to add to that position. Whether or not he's capable of actually landing the right player(s) remains to be seen....but I'm not going to fuss about it not happening inside of his first year.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsMar. 8 at 6:28 p.m.
Thread: 50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LeafsFanForSomeReason</b></div><div>That's just a fancy way to say half-assed. Can get pedantic about it if you want, but they did not commit to a direction and that pisses me off. It's a waste.

You say yourself that despite our franchise C having one of the greatest goal scoring seasons ever (and two other forwards in the top 12 of NHL scoring) that this isn't the year to empty the chamber... That's a pretty damning indictment on this group. One I agree with. I don't think they have it.

But why then are we spending not insignificant assets on bottom of the lineup rentals rather than addressing actual problems moving forward with this group, or saving those assets for future use.

I have no more faith in this groups ability to make a run now than I did before and we spent to get here.</div></div>

Nah. He just didn’t do what you wanted him to do.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsMar. 8 at 5:16 p.m.
Thread: 50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NorthernLeafsFan05</b></div><div>I know a lot of fans aren't particularly happy with that TDL, but I am very happy with how we approached it. We didn't go "all in" and spend a ton on the flashy targets, but we addressed areas of need for solid prices and acquired guys who aren't going to have one-off stints with the Leafs.

Lyubushkin was a guy I wasnt stoked about getting, but he has been pretty solid so far. Doubt he sticks around next season, but I have enjoyed his second stint with the Leafs in the very small sample size we've seen it.

Edmundson is an addition I really like. Cheap, veteran defenseman who keeps it simple and has a mean crosscheck in his repertoire. Fans will love him, especially in the playoffs.

Webber was a minor move, but I really liked that pickup. Huge, rangy defenseman who moves well and eats pucks. Great gamble and is the exact kind of trade Ive wanted to see us make for a while.

Dewar is my favourite addition of the TDL. He is what the Leafs wanted Gregor to be. He is a pending RFA, an excellent skater, a guy who that doesnt shy away from physicality, kills penalties very well, and has posted excellent results despite being given only ~10 minutes of ice time. Should be the PERFECT compliment to that Tavares and Jarnkrok 3rd line. Really hope he sticks around, he is going to be one of the best additions at this years TDL</div></div>

I’m in full agreement with the results. Only thing that doesn’t sit well was how much we paid for Lyubushkin and edmundson compared to dumba.

It’s not that I care about those picks that much or really like dumba…just it seems either Tre hates dumba (he did give klingberg more money while dumba was still sitting in free agency) or we paid more for similar/lesser calibre d-men
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsMar. 7 at 4:19 p.m.
Thread: 50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Agreed, I think there be one or two

But basically Leafs can still go either way depending on factors. They can keep their 2m in space and use that or increase it to 7m


<strong>One trade I have been eying is to maybe flip Jones and then bring someone whose cleared waivers to be the #3 but yea so far nothing crazy</strong>


VGK taught us big Dcores win and if we look in the playoffs analytics go out the window and the guys who thrive are bruisers and rats. Sure some skill is also good but look at FLA best line

Nick Cousins-Sam Bennett-Matthew Tkachuck 2 rats and a bruiser

Heck look at Edmunson in TOR vs. MTL this man got a 5k fine for crosschecking someone in the face. Rielly 5 games lul. But anyways this gets interesting</div></div>

Ya...not sure how much we'd get for him...likely not more than a 5th...but if we have the cap space to nab a late pick and then claim, say, Raanta to be the 3rd goalie...sure...why not.