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KH44

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Calgary Flames
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Forum: Armchair-GMMay 23, 2019 at 10:28 a.m.
Thread: Flames Summer - MTL MIN OTT Hayes
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Claebom</b></div><div>The Sens don't need help spending to the cap floor though. They're expected to be over it for next year thanks to the MacArthur and Gaborik contracts and having guys like Ceci and White they need to re-sign. There's no need to go out and get an aging defender when they already have a clogged blueline with youth they'd rather put in. Chabot, Jaros, Wolanin, and DeMelo are all equal to or better than Stone, and Brannstrom, Lajoie and Harpur are not far behind him but have more upside. Plus Boro and Ceci who management are obsessed with. There's no gain from a serviceable bottom pairing D like Stone. For that reason, he is a pure cap dump to a team like the Sens. He's not filling any hole that they need filled; he's clogging up a spot and he's only saving Calgary cap.

You're right, the 2nd rounder is very fair. That's definitely what I'd expect a guy like Jankowski to go for. We're talking about a team that just finished the first year of their rebuild though. They aren't seeking unproven 24 year olds for draft picks in the top two rounds, they're seeking unproven 21 year olds or 23 year olds they can get for free. I'd say Jankowski is much like Duclair, who they got as a toss in in a Dzingel trade. They didn't give up a solid pick for him. So yes, the trade itself is fair when it comes to value. I just don't see it being a move the Sens would make.</div></div>

Fair enough.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 21, 2019 at 4:04 p.m.
Thread: Flames Summer - MTL MIN OTT Hayes
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Claebom</b></div><div>I still don't see the Sens making a trade like that. Again, Stone is a cap dump. Upgrading a 6th to a 5th is not common compensation for a cap dump. Bickell, Hossa, Datsyuk, while they were mostly injury-based, came with Teravainen, Hinostroza/Oesterle, and a +4 on their 1st round pick along with a second, respectively. So while Stone is still capable of playing hockey, there's no incentive whatsoever for the Sens to make that trade. They theoretically barely move up (Ottawa's 6th is #1 in that round, Calgary's is midway through the 5th) on an inconsequential pick (that then gets cancelled by giving up their own which is also going to be #1 in the round) but have to take on a large cap hit for the year? Not really any draw to that. I don't see much of a problem with the 2nd and Jankowski part of the trade (although I'd imagine Ottawa probably holds on to that pick or looks for something more exciting than Jankowski), just that there's absolutely no point to the Stone side of things.</div></div>

My argument for the move is two fold - Stone is still a serviceable NHL defenceman, but the Flames have too many of them. He is not a 'pure cap dump' to a team like Ottawa that is going to need to spend to get to the cap floor. He also only has the contract for one year, so its not a four or five or six year cap dump. Those are the scary ones. One year, a player to fill a hole they need filled, its not a typical cap dump. He isn't going to be part of any solutions, but he isn't going to be a problem, either. He helps for one year, and then he moves on.

I don't know what kind of bigger fish Ottawa hopes to get for that second. Maybe something though. Who typically goes for a second round pick? Reclamation projects, or depth players that are inconsistent but a team has a roster spot for. Marcus Johansson for a 2nd and a 4th (UFA), Gustav Nyquist for a 2nd and a conditional 3rd (UFA), Zuccarello for a 2nd and a 3rd (UFA). For a 24 year old with term, a second rounder seems pretty fair.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 7, 2019 at 10:25 a.m.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 2, 2019 at 2:38 p.m.
Thread: Flames Trades - OTT MIN MTL TOR
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Ryminister_27</b></div><div>The big issue with Frolik + 1st round pick for Zucker is that Frolik is considered a cap dump, so that lessens the value of him. You're essentially asking Minnesota to take on a cap dump for nothing, so if you wanted Frolik in the deal you'd have to add more. Minnesota could probably easily get a late first and a prospect with no cap dump for Zucker so it doesn't make sense from their side</div></div>

Frolik is not a cap dump, he is a very capable two way player. The issue is the Flames are playing him on the right side and Tkachuk on the left, and they are looking for someone who can score with Tkachuk, instead of the shut down element that Frolik brings. Not a cap dump at all.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 2, 2019 at 11:34 a.m.
Thread: Flames Trades - OTT MIN MTL TOR
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Ryminister_27</b></div><div>It's actually not too bad overall. Few tweaks but you're in the right area to get talks started.

The rumoured Minnesota deal would take more than just Frolik and a 1st for Zucker. I'd say Minnesota would be looking at a young roster player or prospect that's close to the NHL. I'd suggest a guy like Dube or one of their young d-man. Wild reportedly asked for Valimaki at the deadline but were declined so it's gotta be in the range of players.

Brodie would be a good fit in Montreal and clear some cap for Calgary. A 2nd is a good place to start, maybe change the second pick to a conditional one based on if he signs. Or the likely deal would be a 2nd and a B- prospect.

Seems like you're treating Stone as a cap dump to Ottawa, you'd have to add more than that to get it done. The receiving team has to be getting something of value in return for taking on the salary of the bad contract. 5th and 6th round picks don't have much value for that.

Kadri for Jankowski isn't a bad deal. I worry about Jankowski's skating a bit for Toronto, but it clears their cap space. &amp; because it's clearing the cap I'd say change to to just 1 2nd round pick instead. But again, you're in the right value range.

Good work though!</div></div>

Thanks. Tough to put together deals that both sides are unhappy with, a general requirement for a good trade.

I am doubtful about Minnesota asking for a lot more. For example, straight up Zucker for Valimaki wouldn't happen, nothing else involved. Ottawa asked for Valimaki and a first for Mark Stone and said no. I don't see how Frolik+Valimaki+first is now somehow okay for a much lesser player. I don't see the Flames moving Dube as any sort of package either. So asking for Frolik + 1st + more is a difficult sell. If it was Frolik + Kylington, that would probably be too rich for the Flames. If it becomes Frolik+1st+prospect, Minnesota then needs to add to their side, and the deal becomes big and unworkable.

Brodie for a second and a conditional third that becomes a second if he is traded or re-signed could work, sure. I have him pegged as being worth less than a first, but quite a bit more than just a second.

Ottawa needs players and has lots of cap space. It would be a cap space dump, but not one that is long term or especially significant. It might cost more, but not substantially more. They aren't being asked to cover his costs for years. Increase the Flames pick to a fourth, maybe.

Just straight up giving the Leafs the return for the Brodie trade + Jankowski works for me.
Forum: Armchair-GMFeb. 11, 2019 at 11:22 a.m.
Thread: Mark Stone
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Green4D4Again</b></div><div>No. Ottawa is lacking 3 areas. All three Calgary has:

1- A 2019 1st round pick
2- A good defensive prospect (RHD)
3- A young roster forward.

Maybe add a later round pick in 2020 (5th in 2020).

So Stone -&gt; Calgary

2019 1st round pick, Bennet/Janowski (example), Andersson/Killington (example).

You can then maybe add a cap dump for an extra early round pick (Frolik/Neal).</div></div>

That makes sense, and is close to one of the other trade proposals I put out (They are titled Mark Stone Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3)
This trade proposal was the full, long term, all pick option. If it is a prospect, player and a pick, I have 2019 1st, Jankowski, Kylington, Gawdin. Czarnik can be added as he was sought after by lots of teams, but it doesn't seem to working in Calgary (even though I believe he is better than Hathaway, Magniapaine who keep getting time ahead of him)