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KH44
Member Since
Jun. 1, 2017
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Calgary Flames
Forum Posts
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ARMCHAIR-GM TEAMS
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 23, 2019 at 10:28 a.m.
Thread:
Flames Summer - MTL MIN OTT Hayes
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Claebom</b></div><div>The Sens don't need help spending to the cap floor though. They're expected to be over it for next year thanks to the MacArthur and Gaborik contracts and having guys like Ceci and White they need to re-sign. There's no need to go out and get an aging defender when they already have a clogged blueline with youth they'd rather put in. Chabot, Jaros, Wolanin, and DeMelo are all equal to or better than Stone, and Brannstrom, Lajoie and Harpur are not far behind him but have more upside. Plus Boro and Ceci who management are obsessed with. There's no gain from a serviceable bottom pairing D like Stone. For that reason, he is a pure cap dump to a team like the Sens. He's not filling any hole that they need filled; he's clogging up a spot and he's only saving Calgary cap.
You're right, the 2nd rounder is very fair. That's definitely what I'd expect a guy like Jankowski to go for. We're talking about a team that just finished the first year of their rebuild though. They aren't seeking unproven 24 year olds for draft picks in the top two rounds, they're seeking unproven 21 year olds or 23 year olds they can get for free. I'd say Jankowski is much like Duclair, who they got as a toss in in a Dzingel trade. They didn't give up a solid pick for him. So yes, the trade itself is fair when it comes to value. I just don't see it being a move the Sens would make.</div></div>
Fair enough.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 23, 2019 at 10:27 a.m.
Thread:
Flames Summer - MTL MIN OTT Hayes
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>royle9</b></div><div>Calgary's not giving up their 1st for Zucker anymore, Frolik + would do it but they've already confirmed the 1st is off the table at least for this specific deal.</div></div>
Really? I hadn't seen that anywhere, where is that coming from?
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 21, 2019 at 4:05 p.m.
Thread:
Flames Summer - MTL MIN OTT Hayes
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>claytron8000</b></div><div>The hankering for Hayes reminds me of Doan/Iginla, Rattie/Baertschi stuff. Top prospects dominate lower leagues. Expecting them to rekindle chemistry years later at the highest level is tough to see.</div></div>
Yeah, I get that angle. I was more looking at the skill set and cost, not that they used to play together.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 21, 2019 at 4:04 p.m.
Thread:
Flames Summer - MTL MIN OTT Hayes
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Claebom</b></div><div>I still don't see the Sens making a trade like that. Again, Stone is a cap dump. Upgrading a 6th to a 5th is not common compensation for a cap dump. Bickell, Hossa, Datsyuk, while they were mostly injury-based, came with Teravainen, Hinostroza/Oesterle, and a +4 on their 1st round pick along with a second, respectively. So while Stone is still capable of playing hockey, there's no incentive whatsoever for the Sens to make that trade. They theoretically barely move up (Ottawa's 6th is #1 in that round, Calgary's is midway through the 5th) on an inconsequential pick (that then gets cancelled by giving up their own which is also going to be #1 in the round) but have to take on a large cap hit for the year? Not really any draw to that. I don't see much of a problem with the 2nd and Jankowski part of the trade (although I'd imagine Ottawa probably holds on to that pick or looks for something more exciting than Jankowski), just that there's absolutely no point to the Stone side of things.</div></div>
My argument for the move is two fold - Stone is still a serviceable NHL defenceman, but the Flames have too many of them. He is not a 'pure cap dump' to a team like Ottawa that is going to need to spend to get to the cap floor. He also only has the contract for one year, so its not a four or five or six year cap dump. Those are the scary ones. One year, a player to fill a hole they need filled, its not a typical cap dump. He isn't going to be part of any solutions, but he isn't going to be a problem, either. He helps for one year, and then he moves on.
I don't know what kind of bigger fish Ottawa hopes to get for that second. Maybe something though. Who typically goes for a second round pick? Reclamation projects, or depth players that are inconsistent but a team has a roster spot for. Marcus Johansson for a 2nd and a 4th (UFA), Gustav Nyquist for a 2nd and a conditional 3rd (UFA), Zuccarello for a 2nd and a 3rd (UFA). For a 24 year old with term, a second rounder seems pretty fair.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 21, 2019 at 12:02 p.m.
Thread:
Flames Summer - MTL MIN OTT Hayes
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Claebom</b></div><div>Sens aren't going to give up a 2nd for that. Stone's a cap dump; Calgary has to pay them, not the other way around.</div></div>
I agree, Stone is a cap dump. Jankowski is not. I basically had two trades set up: Stone and a Calgary fifth for an Ottawa sixth, and Jankowski for a second and a fifth. So, I cancelled the two fifths, and it became Jankowski, Stone for a second and a sixth. If you like, we can include both fifths again.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 10, 2019 at 12:41 p.m.
Thread:
Revamping the team - NYR MTL FLA
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Poehling</b></div><div>Shaw bring more than points ...</div></div>
Great. Lots of players do. A lot of the players above him do as well. So do players below him. He is not a first line scorer, or even a borderline first line scorer, and if intangibles result in more success, awesome. Brodie brings things as well.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 9, 2019 at 4:39 p.m.
Thread:
Revamping the team - NYR MTL FLA
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Poehling</b></div><div>& Shaw is a top line winger. Played with Toews on the 1st line in Chicago played with Domi on the 1st line in Mtl. Evans is a B prospect</div></div>
Shaw ranks 90th in Points Per Game for wingers in the past three seasons. That puts him solidly in second line winger territory. It is much easier to find players like Shaw than it is to find players like Brodie. Brodie is 36th among defenseman in time on ice, and 49th in Points Per Game for defensemen. Both numbers are solidly in top 2 defensemen territory. A straight up trade overvalues Shaw.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 8, 2019 at 2:16 p.m.
Thread:
Hayes McElhinney FLA NJ CLB
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Vanderm</b></div><div>Decent underlying stats for a guy who's shown he can play 15-17 minutes per night, right shot, not small. I think he'd be a great cheaper option with Valimaki on the bottom pair. Certainty better than Stone, Prout, etc.</div></div>
Okay, but we are trading a good player to get him. And make no mistake, Frolik is a good player. He is an effective defensive winger with impact. Doesn't seem like a good move, the Flames are giving Frolik away here.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 8, 2019 at 1:08 p.m.
Thread:
Hayes McElhinney FLA NJ CLB
Zero interest in re-signing Hathaway to anything more than the league minimum on a one year deal. Players like him are incredibly easy to find, should never have term or money on their deals.
Why the Weegar trade?
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 7, 2019 at 10:25 a.m.
Thread:
Flames
Frolik is not a cap dump!
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 3, 2019 at 12:25 p.m.
Thread:
Flames Trades - OTT MIN MTL TOR
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Ryminister_27</b></div><div>He was a healthy scratch at times this year cause the coach didn't like his game. He's a cap dump. He doesn't have much value for a 3rd liner with that kinda contract</div></div>
Nope, not a dump. 65 games, 16 goals, 18 assists, 34 points. One year left at $4.3. Not a dump.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 2, 2019 at 2:38 p.m.
Thread:
Flames Trades - OTT MIN MTL TOR
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Ryminister_27</b></div><div>The big issue with Frolik + 1st round pick for Zucker is that Frolik is considered a cap dump, so that lessens the value of him. You're essentially asking Minnesota to take on a cap dump for nothing, so if you wanted Frolik in the deal you'd have to add more. Minnesota could probably easily get a late first and a prospect with no cap dump for Zucker so it doesn't make sense from their side</div></div>
Frolik is not a cap dump, he is a very capable two way player. The issue is the Flames are playing him on the right side and Tkachuk on the left, and they are looking for someone who can score with Tkachuk, instead of the shut down element that Frolik brings. Not a cap dump at all.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 2, 2019 at 11:34 a.m.
Thread:
Flames Trades - OTT MIN MTL TOR
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Ryminister_27</b></div><div>It's actually not too bad overall. Few tweaks but you're in the right area to get talks started.
The rumoured Minnesota deal would take more than just Frolik and a 1st for Zucker. I'd say Minnesota would be looking at a young roster player or prospect that's close to the NHL. I'd suggest a guy like Dube or one of their young d-man. Wild reportedly asked for Valimaki at the deadline but were declined so it's gotta be in the range of players.
Brodie would be a good fit in Montreal and clear some cap for Calgary. A 2nd is a good place to start, maybe change the second pick to a conditional one based on if he signs. Or the likely deal would be a 2nd and a B- prospect.
Seems like you're treating Stone as a cap dump to Ottawa, you'd have to add more than that to get it done. The receiving team has to be getting something of value in return for taking on the salary of the bad contract. 5th and 6th round picks don't have much value for that.
Kadri for Jankowski isn't a bad deal. I worry about Jankowski's skating a bit for Toronto, but it clears their cap space. & because it's clearing the cap I'd say change to to just 1 2nd round pick instead. But again, you're in the right value range.
Good work though!</div></div>
Thanks. Tough to put together deals that both sides are unhappy with, a general requirement for a good trade.
I am doubtful about Minnesota asking for a lot more. For example, straight up Zucker for Valimaki wouldn't happen, nothing else involved. Ottawa asked for Valimaki and a first for Mark Stone and said no. I don't see how Frolik+Valimaki+first is now somehow okay for a much lesser player. I don't see the Flames moving Dube as any sort of package either. So asking for Frolik + 1st + more is a difficult sell. If it was Frolik + Kylington, that would probably be too rich for the Flames. If it becomes Frolik+1st+prospect, Minnesota then needs to add to their side, and the deal becomes big and unworkable.
Brodie for a second and a conditional third that becomes a second if he is traded or re-signed could work, sure. I have him pegged as being worth less than a first, but quite a bit more than just a second.
Ottawa needs players and has lots of cap space. It would be a cap space dump, but not one that is long term or especially significant. It might cost more, but not substantially more. They aren't being asked to cover his costs for years. Increase the Flames pick to a fourth, maybe.
Just straight up giving the Leafs the return for the Brodie trade + Jankowski works for me.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 2, 2019 at 11:21 a.m.
Thread:
Flames Trades - OTT MIN MTL TOR
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>math731</b></div><div>Just so you know... MTL isn't giving 2x2nd for Brodie</div></div>
The issue is what is he worth - its more than a second, without question. But is it a first? I didn't think so. Is it a second and a throwaway pick? Again, no. Montreal needs puck moving defencemen, and a one year audition next to Weber or Petry has a lot of value. I settled on two seconds. I could see it being a second and a conditional third, which becomes a second if he is traded or re-signed.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 1, 2019 at 5:43 p.m.
Thread:
My ideal line-up MONMINTOROTTDET
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>TanSor</b></div><div>That was prior to the deadline. Zucker played much better afterwards (raising his value) and now non-playoff teams that weren't looking to add a guy like Zucker at the deadline would be open to doing so. This theoretical increase in demand would raise his price. That's why I think it'd now cost the Flames more than what they initially offered.</div></div>
He didn't play any better. He had the hat trick the first game back, but then reverted to his previous form. I don't think he raised his value any. You might be right about more suitors, but he isn't worth more because of a month of hockey.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
May 1, 2019 at 5:03 p.m.
Thread:
My ideal line-up MONMINTOROTTDET
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>TanSor</b></div><div>All of these Flames post acquiring Zucker (a player who has scored 33 goals in a season and scored over 20 <em>in a down year without a playmaker getting him the puck</em>) for pennies is going to drive me nuts this offseason. Make the pick a 1st, swap Czarnik for Kylington, and you have yourself a deal.</div></div>
Since the rumoured deal is Frolik and a first for Zucker, I don't think any prospects will be involved.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Feb. 13, 2019 at 3:05 p.m.
Thread:
Taking on Salary - Edm Cgy Wpg Nsh Ana Det
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Wojo</b></div><div>Why would detroit trade Z and Franzen's contracts when they are buried on LTIR anyways?</div></div>
Two reasons - LTIR only applies in season, so Detroit needs to have that cap space available in the offseason, limiting the amount they can actually spend
- if the salaries are fully insured, Det doesn't have to spend money on them, but if they are not (and most likely are at least partially not) then the team would save money moving them, as well as cap space.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Feb. 11, 2019 at 4:17 p.m.
Thread:
The Latest Rumors
That is a big overpay on Calgary's part. Valimaki as part of a Stone deal is iffy, let alone this.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Feb. 11, 2019 at 4:16 p.m.
Thread:
Flames for it
This is a massive overpay by the Flames. 3 really good young pieces, 2 firsts and a second? No thank you.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Feb. 11, 2019 at 11:35 a.m.
Thread:
Mark Stone Part 3
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>wardbell92</b></div><div>there is no trade.....</div></div>
Hahaha, oops. I hit publish before I hit the trade button. I will fix it, thanks!
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Feb. 11, 2019 at 11:34 a.m.
Thread:
Mark Stone Part 2
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>wardbell92</b></div><div>Think this might be a very close value for him. Ottawa fans will say not enough but think this may be close to what it takes to get him. Better than Part 1</div></div>
Part One was for the Ottawa crowd that want more than one first rounder; it was meant to show that its an option, but probably not the option they think it will be.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Feb. 11, 2019 at 11:33 a.m.
Thread:
Mark Stone
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Green4D4Again</b></div><div>I'll have to take a look.
I fully expect Stone and Duchene to go out west. Calgary, Nashville and Winnipeg are all suitors. There are also cheaper options than Stone to fill your needs at forward. Think Dzingel, who is only going to cost you a 1st round pick and maybe a later pick/or prospect (ex: Dzingel for a 1st in 2019 and a 5th in 2020).</div></div>
A first and something else is a big price for Dzingel. I highly doubt Ottawa picks up a first and something else for him.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Feb. 11, 2019 at 11:22 a.m.
Thread:
Mark Stone
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Green4D4Again</b></div><div>No. Ottawa is lacking 3 areas. All three Calgary has:
1- A 2019 1st round pick
2- A good defensive prospect (RHD)
3- A young roster forward.
Maybe add a later round pick in 2020 (5th in 2020).
So Stone -> Calgary
2019 1st round pick, Bennet/Janowski (example), Andersson/Killington (example).
You can then maybe add a cap dump for an extra early round pick (Frolik/Neal).</div></div>
That makes sense, and is close to one of the other trade proposals I put out (They are titled Mark Stone Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3)
This trade proposal was the full, long term, all pick option. If it is a prospect, player and a pick, I have 2019 1st, Jankowski, Kylington, Gawdin. Czarnik can be added as he was sought after by lots of teams, but it doesn't seem to working in Calgary (even though I believe he is better than Hathaway, Magniapaine who keep getting time ahead of him)
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Feb. 11, 2019 at 11:07 a.m.
Thread:
Mark Stone
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BeastModeUnknown</b></div><div>I think Prospects would be needed as well.</div></div>
You think the final trade for Stone will include two first rounders, a second rounder, AND prospects, as in multiple ones? Who is paying that price?
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Feb. 11, 2019 at 11:05 a.m.
Thread:
Mark Stone
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>bobpip123</b></div><div>gotta give up more than that</div></div>
I disagree. Maybe you have to make a different deal, but I highly doubt any deal contains two first rounders, a second, and then some. Take out the 2020 first, add some prospects, or get rid of both 2020 picks and add a mix of young NHLers and prospects maybe, but not those three picks and then more.
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