Subbanator7667

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Forum: Armchair-GMMon at 12:04 pm
Thread: RNH and Ristolainen
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CD282</b></div><div>This may be true, it depends on whether WPG feels that they have a more balanced team with another strong center vs too many top-6 wingers - or whether they have a young player (or UFA target) that can fill the gap on LW. I'm not inside Cheveldayoff's head like you seem to be, so I can't say what he's likely to do.


Sure he can elevate them, just not to 1st line scoring rates. If this is the measure of a 1C, then I'd say teams like WPG and MTL don't have a 1C and haven't for a very long time. Fortunately for them, it's not. It's just something you made up.</div></div>

Wow you took a real defensive turn in attitude there, didn't know calling a guy a 50 point defensive center when taken away from star players was such a horrible thing.

Winnipeg has had Scheiffle who has played at top line levels for a few years, not always consistently and has been helped by Wheeler but still capable.

MTLs problems with center are well documented. Danault can play the role sufficiently but doesnt have the offense to be a true #1.

Isnt that exactly what a 1C does? Elevate other players around him to be top line players with him? A 1C is the most important player to any team, that's not something I'm making up, its fact. But go on ahead and think that RNH is a 1C, even though he hasnt really played center in 2 years, never got over 60 points before he played with McDavid and even before that couldnt get 60 points with Hall on his wing.

Like I said man, capable 2C, nothing more then that, and that's not a slight, still makes him a very good player but trying to make him out to be the guy that McDavid and Draistle depend on is laughable.
Forum: Armchair-GMMon at 11:13 am
Thread: RNH and Ristolainen
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CD282</b></div><div>You completely missed my point. You said that RNH doesn't make people around him better and I showed that he did. I never even posted Nuge's scoring rates so I'm not sure why you're crying that McDavid and Draisaitl aren't included in the trade.

Nugent-Hopkins makes everyone around him better, that's a fact that has been well known to anyone who has watched Edmonton play much in the past 10 years. You stated otherwise; you were wrong to do so. That's all.</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CD282</b></div><div>To your *new* point I'll say this: Nugent-Hopkins has been a capable 1C his entire career when flanked with 1st line wingers. He isn't good enough to elevate 3rd line wingers to 1st line scoring rates like McDavid, but then you can probably count on your left hand the number of players in the league today that can do that. So that's a nonsensical argument.</div></div>

Honestly, you're like the 3rd person on this thread that iv been debating, so I got a little lost in where I was and what thier point was. I started this whole thing by saying if Winnipeg was going to trade Ehlers or would be for a younger center that was entering his prime like Ehlers is.

My new arguement to you is the same as I said before, but even you just stated that RNH isnt good enough to elevate 3rd liners and is capable with star players, which is basically what I have been saying. Put him with star players and he is a capable 60 point guy, but if you're trading for him and going to use him as a 2C away from your stars then all he is gonna be is a defensively capable 50 point center, which is still really good but add in the 7.5 million x 8 year contract (like this trade scenario has it) and Winnipeg is in the situation where they are paying a player to his retirement, not through his prime.

Like I said, you're the 3rd person I have discussed this with, they have all had different points, i just come back to the simple fact of trading a 24 year old winger entering his prime should be moved for a younger center that a team gets for his prime years, not his wnd of his career years.
Forum: Armchair-GMMon at 10:53 am
Thread: RNH and Ristolainen
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CD282</b></div><div>Really? Look up McDavid and Draisaitl's scoring rates when with Nugent-Hopkins as opposed to with each other for the past 3 seasons combined (since all 3 men rarely appeared on the ice together at 5v5):

McDavid with Draisaitl: 3.23 P/60
McDavid with Nugent-Hopkins: 3.05

Draisaitl with Nugent-Hopkins: 3.68 P/60
Draisaitl with McDavid: 3.07

Also GF%:

McDavid with Draisaitl: 54.22%
McDavid with Nugent-Hopkins: 57.14%

Draisaitl with McDavid: 54.22%
Draisaitl with Nugent-Hopkins: 61.64%

McDavid scores nearly as much with Nuge as he does with Draisaitl, who is a top-5 producer in the league. Draisaitl scores MORE with Nugent-Hopkins than he does with the world's #1 offensive player. Both show better goal share with Nugent-Hopkins than with each other.</div></div>

Ok but if a team is trading for RNH they arent getting either of those two players. My whole arguement is that RNH isnt a top line center away from Edmonton. He becomes a good 2C, but by himself he isnt going to put up points at nearly the same rate. Still will be good defensively, still put up 50 points a year, but thinking he is going to be a 60-70 point player as a 2C on another team just isnt gonna happen.

And in this scenario, getting traded for Ehler would mean that Winnipeg takes on an older, more expensive player that would be on a contract taking him to the end of his career (the one they would resign him to after his final year), opposed to a player heading into the prime of his career.