TopLineTom43

Samson4theVez
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Feb 4, 1997
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Forum: Armchair-GMNov 15, 2019 at 7:54
Thread: Fire Babock
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>mondo</b></div><div>matthews and marner contracts were signed with the intention of them remaining ppg players.

both boston guys signed in september right before training camp, which is what marner did.

also, i don't quite understand why you're incredibly anal about toronto giving their top guys too much money. people always criticize leafs fans for being too harsh on the players, yet here you are repremending toronto fans for not trying to chase their top scoring players out of the city because the coach has lost the room.</div></div>

I’m not anal about it. I’m simply saying that they are overpaid. It’s true they are overpaid. You are allowed to say it. Doesn’t mean they are bad or it’s not insulting. They make too much money. Nobody was chasing them out of town. That’s a very dramatic take on this. They are RFA the gm has all the leverage. They weren’t going to sit out. They could have signed them to a 2-3 year bridge deal for a reasonable money they gave out this deal after the new TV deal was done. Boston signed those guys assuming they peaked and wouldn’t improve? Honestly leafs signed them and both players probably won’t ever do better than Marner did last season. Again that my opinion. Again I’m not wasting anymore time on this but the coach lost the locker room or do the player refuse to play his system that has won a cup and hold medals? Honestly idfc I’m not a fan but I would be upset as a leafs fan that we sunk 30+ million on 3 guys knowing that they got every cent they could and didn’t give the team a dollar for anyone else. Marner and Matthews are great but their greed will end up costing this team when they need to sign complementary talent. Also Anderson and Reilly
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 15, 2019 at 5:48
Thread: Fire Babock
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LoganOllivier</b></div><div>I just don't think they are overpaid. I think when you have a terrific young star you need to look at what they are going to do in the next couple of years and try to get a fair deal for that time. For years teams have been operating under the premise that you have to earn those big contracts, so stars did great for their first 10 years (Doughty) and then they sign their big long term max deal. The problem is those players are getting paid for what they did, not what they can do. What TO is doing is paying these guys for what they think they are going to be able to do. Its risky sure, but its also a much smarter plan than to wait and then overpay them later when they can't live up to their contract. In the case of Marner, I think he'll still look like a good contract very soon, and then when these guys are older there won't be that argument of "Hey I took my pay cut back then, now I want my money". It also will give more power to the management team later on when they can say to Marner when he's turning 29 or whatever and needing a new contract, "listen Mitch, we know you've been great for the past 6 years and we want to continue this, so we'll give you either term or a big cap hit. Not both." There will be mountains more of evidence proving that paying guys huge money into their mid 30's is stupid so they'll either get short term deals again or long term at below their market value.</div></div>

I don’t disagree that most ufa signing from ages 28 and up are all normally terrible but at that point I would be more willing to pay you for what you did than to pay you for what I think you’ll do. Like Kane and Toews. Them signing for cheap allowed them to win a cup. The deals aren’t good now but who cares they won 3 cup. I don’t think either of our opinions are wrong I just prefer to pay you after you have done good.
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 15, 2019 at 5:13
Thread: Fire Babock
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LoganOllivier</b></div><div>Matthews is better than Eichel, Eichel makes 10.5 for 8 years. Matthews was going to get more, he accomplished more and his ceiling is higher. So Matthews was getting over Tavares, no question. To get him to 8 years it was going to be for the same cap percentage that McDavid signed for which at the time Matthews signed, that was going to be over 13.5. So the team came up with a contract that worked for both sides. That is the market we live in. That one is fine.

Nylander is a bargain, his contract is the best on the team. I don't care what anyone says, he has elite talent and so much untapped potential that his contract will only look better as he progresses.

Marner on the other hand isn't very good. There is no one on this planet that is going to convince me that Marner is worth over 5 million dollars more a year than Nylander. Marner should be 8 years x9 at the very most.

If the Leafs end up having to move a piece to balance their roster (I really don't think it'll ever come to that), Marner is the one I'd trade, he'd bring the biggest return and likely save money.</div></div>

Well Eichel was buffalos only superstar and he was overpaid for that reason. Realistically he would make 8.5-9m. Again the market isn’t set I stone. Matthews should have the wherewithal to understand that Eichel could make more money bc they didn’t have as many talented high caliber players to sign. Matthews then set the bar for Marner who also got overpaid. It’s a slippery slope. And Matthews isn’t worth 13.5 million that’s just silly. He wanted McDavid money but Matthews isn’t even On McDavids level. McDavid is miles better and that’s not an insult. McDavid would compete with Crosby when Crosby was 21. Nylander isn’t a bargain he isn’t overpaid he’s fairly paid. Marner contract would be hard to move imo. You make 11 million you better score 100 points.
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 15, 2019 at 4:52
Thread: Fire Babock
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 15, 2019 at 4:46
Thread: Fire Babock
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LoganOllivier</b></div><div>Crosby's cap percentage is pretty close to Matthews and Tavares I believe (for when he signed his contract) so that again is a flawed assessment. In 3 years McDavid won't have the richest contract in hockey, it'll be some of these other young guys like Laine, or Point or whoever. They will be making huge dollars and at that time people will be saying, well Matthews is only making 11.7. Which at that time will be a silly comparison because the market changes and salaries grow. I don't buy the whole cap hell situation mainly because TO doesn't have any bad contracts. Not like Boston with Backes, or Laad, or Seabrook, or Erickson or whoever. Lucic is a terrible signing but Matthews? No Matthews will be one of the best goal scorers of his generation. Marner is one of the best play makers in the game and Tavares is a legit top 10 player in the league, that is money well spent. If Kapanen made 5 million that would be a problem. Dubas hasn't and won't be making those sorts of bad calls.</div></div>

Off topic but kind of related...look up the signing on July 1 2016 my god they are terrible. I think the leafs have a ton of talented players and that’s never an issue. They are just signed for More money than I personally think they are worth. Again this is where we disagree but imagine this team with guys signed for this

Matthews 10m x8
Marner 9m X 8
Nylander 7m x8

Tavares was a UFA and you had to pay him. He’s also been great for them.
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 15, 2019 at 4:31
Thread: Fire Babock
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 15, 2019 at 4:25
Thread: Fire Babock
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 15, 2019 at 4:15
Thread: Fire Babock
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 15, 2019 at 3:57
Thread: Fire Babock
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 15, 2019 at 3:49
Thread: Fire Babock
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 15, 2019 at 3:39
Thread: Fire Babock