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Forum:
Armchair-GM
Wed at 9:33 am
Thread:
Pierre Lebrun
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>F50marco</b></div><div>I just watched Eric Engels break down the quarantine period on the SDPN and he says its 14 days and thats once he enters the country. Games are being played every other day. Maybe 1/4 isnt exact but its not far off.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uMJtfLuX_F0
Youll have to select the time stamp where they interview Eric specifically.
As for the proposal, i think its way too much. Its equivalent to more than paying the max offer sheet compensation IMO. Which I use as a rule of thumb. No player should be worth more than four 1st rounders except for generational talents UNLESS your desperate. Habs arent desperate.
I dont think there is a deal to be made this year frankly. Thats why i mentioned its better for CLB to be patient. Theyll have way more teams interested when they'll have more cap to play with. Plus the Seattle expansion may help as well.
For sure though, taking cap implications out of the situation, KK+prospect+1st is fair. In season, you got to start adding players to offset salary and cap which just makes a deal of this magnitude very hard.
Either way its all presumptive. If someone offers CLB a silly package now, my point is moot. If they get a better offer in the off season, then its valid. Theres really no way to know for sure. Only guesses.</div></div>
If that is the ask from Columbus, I’m sure Bergevin will pay the price. Your point about “in season being tough because of balancing out salary” is valid and it’s predominantly why I floated the 50% retained salary idea. For those who argue that Columbus is small market and can’t afford to retain salary, Dubois’s next contract will be exponentially more than KK’s. The trade saves them tons of money even if it 50% retained to make the cap fit for the Habs.
So Dubois at a $2.5mm cap hit for KK, a prospect, and a 1st makes sense to me. They can have either Armia or Byron, or we can find a home for them somewhere else to make room for a Dubois.
The Aho offer sheet would have netted Columbus a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd at a $8.4mm cap hit. KK, a prospect, and a first is an overpay, so Columbus needing to retain salary is not unreasonable.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Tue at 4:35 pm
Thread:
Pierre Lebrun
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>F50marco</b></div><div>What is the need? The player wants out of Columbus, Habs are already solid down the middle already, they dont have cap to just add a player, trading players now means losing 1/4 of the season of their production due to covid protocols. Not to mention 1/4 of the season of the players theyre losing in the trade too. Habs still have to make the playoffs also. 1/4 of the season could make or break your chances in this division this year.
PLD is under contract. He has no choice but to play for CLB. Columbus controls his destiny 100%. No need to rush a deal here. As it is right now, there are so many factors that detract from Columbus maximizing value and other teams willingness to overspend.
PLD could score 5 goals all year and would still be very desired. Its not going anywhere. Hes vowed to be a good teammate so there shouldn't be any friction from that standpoint. My sole concern is Torts ego getting the better of him. If im Jarmo, id shut that down asap because it makes Jarmos job even harder. Torts should want a smooth transition also so its in his best interest.
As for "full value", its subjective. My full value might differ from yours. In my head, full value is equivalent to offer sheeting him at max compensation. As it stands right now, because Columbus is being forced to trade an asset they wouldnt normally, they've lost some negotiating power and all teams know this and hence will not give full value.
If Jarmo doesnt like it, he can choose to keep PLD but that means keeping a player that openly doesnt want to play there and the media circus that comes with it.
And just to clarify because ppl on here like to exaggerate, i do not mean that Dubois for Mete and a 4th would be fair now. CLB will still net a very nice return, just not "full value".</div></div>
Quarantine is 7 days following a trade. Where are you getting 1/4 of a season? Typically 3 games out of 56, so ~ 1/20. Mete and a 4th is a strawman.
Do you think my proposal would be “full value”? I’d argue it’s an overpay, but I would still do it cuz I’d argue it would make us better both now and in the future.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Tue at 4:27 pm
Thread:
Pierre Lebrun
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>pharrow</b></div><div>dude all your news is fake. Get over it.</div></div>
I think you misunderstand the purpose of this website.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Tue at 11:37 am
Thread:
Pierre Lebrun
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Campabee</b></div><div>Especially when Tortz is only decreasing his value by benching him and playing him on a make shift fourth line</div></div>
Seriously...Dubois probably has the date circled on his calendar where he quotes Harden’s final presser word for word.
If I’m Bergevin, I make my final pitch within a week, and then if that falls through I bail, Dubois probably gets pissed off and loses motivation, and Jarmo probably never gets an offer that good again.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Tue at 11:01 am
Thread:
Pierre Lebrun
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>F50marco</b></div><div>There are only a few teams who have A: the pieces B: the need for a centre C: the cap space and D: the want to make the trade this year.
Honestly, the best solution for Columbus is simply to tell Torts to stop being a prick and play him and make the trade in the offseason.
I know its a cliche thing to say on here but given all the circumstances going on right now, no team is gonna give Columbus full value right now. Their only real hope is him having another solid season this year and waiting till the offseason when every team has way more cap to work with.</div></div>
Walk me through your thinking as to why Bergevin wouldn’t give fair value in trade right now. Also, what trade proposal do you think would represent fair market value?
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Tue at 10:54 am
Thread:
Pierre Lebrun
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Campabee</b></div><div>The biggest problem with waiting until the offseason is if he only puts up about 35-40 points in 56 games and his PPG is .60 the year with Panarin will be viewed as the outlire and as such his value will drop significantly. It is a huge gamble for Jarmo to wait especially with the way Tortz has been deploying PLD.</div></div>
Totally agree, the best time for Jarmo is now. Bergevin will pay fair market value. Columbus can get multiple key assets for their future.
The writing is on the wall, why prolong the inevitable?
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Tue at 10:51 am
Thread:
Pierre Lebrun
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>pharrow</b></div><div>talk about some fake news. TSN or sportsnet just had the thing on there like a day or two ago that said CBJ isn't interested in moving PLD anytime soon.
You can all stop.</div></div>
“fake news”...not sure that moniker is gonna age well. i.e. “real news” thought by a wild mob of despot following rubes to be “fake news” because of either their willful blindness, bias, mental illness, or simply an undying allegiance to daddy...
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Tue at 9:33 am
Thread:
Pierre Lebrun
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Riceroni</b></div><div>That would be a pretty good trade for CBJ</div></div>
Seriously, taking some of the hyperbolic comments here aside, not sure how you can argue that It wouldn’t be in Columbus’ interest to make that move. For a player who’s asked for a trade and doesn’t want to be there, it’d be a helluva return. The Matt Duchene trade set the Avalanche up for the future, this could do the same for Columbus. So to hang onto a disgruntled Dubois for what reasons exactly?
This trade would work for both teams, it’s a win win. There doesn’t always need to be a loser, despite what some of the posters here tend to think. Habs would get the player they covet, and the Jackets get a huge haul in return.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Fri at 5:06 pm
Thread:
Dubois for Kotkaniemi
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>masterjuddi</b></div><div>The guy is under contract for 2 years, he's 22 and only getting better. I dont think they are dealing him anytime soon, that's just my opinion. Guys asked to be traded all the time and it doesn't happen until the team is ready. PLD signed a deal, showed up to camp and is in the lineup...best thing he can do is play the best hockey he can. He couldve held out...he could've refused to attend camp but he didnt. I agree that it's a fair deal, but it probably wouldve happened already if it was on the table</div></div>
When Jarmo decides that he’s actually going to move him, he’ll give Bergevin a call and a deal will get done. Thinking things like “he’s under contract for two years and this isn’t going to be bad” is denial, plain and simple. The fact that Dubois actually signed that 2 year contract was done with the specific purpose of making a deal more likely. That offer was disrespect, pure and simple. He’s gone, the writing is on the wall, and he’s James Harden in the meantime. It’s not a good situation for Columbus. Jarmo will realize this sooner rather than later. Asking for Suzuki is nonsense. There isn’t a team in the league who will move an equivalent player to Suzuki with 2 years remaining on ELC. They’d be lucky to get someone comparable to KK, let alone possibly some of the extra pieces that we could add to the package. Jarmo is doing his due diligence, no doubt, asking what possibilities are out there, but it won’t take long before he realizes what time it is.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Fri at 2:15 pm
Thread:
Dubois for Kotkaniemi
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>masterjuddi</b></div><div>I dont know how it's gonna play out, but I do know the guy wants out and the best way to do that is show up and play well. Torts wants to win games and if PLD is playing well, CBJ win more.</div></div>
Columbus’s whole identity is based on everyone buying in. PLD’s head is already elsewhere if he’s publicly saying places he’d want to go, Montreal specifically. Bergevin will pay fair value, so there’s no rational reason for Jarmo to try and hold on.
I’m betting Dubois is out in a month, tops.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Fri at 11:50 am
Thread:
Kotkaniemi for Dubois
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Jakethesnake97</b></div><div>Big No from MTL if we have to give KK or Suzuki IMO.</div></div>
Gotta give to get. Habs are trying to win now so PLD fits the bill the next couple seasons way better than KK imo. It is possible though that KK might have the higher ceiling. As of yet unproven though. PLD at a 3.4mm cap hit for two seasons would be an absolute gift.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Fri at 11:39 am
Thread:
Kotkaniemi for Dubois
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CARBONNEAU21</b></div><div>Hey this package makes sense to me, its gonna hurt to get someone like PLD. And I’m at the point where it’s anything but Suzuki and Romanov. It means a lot when someone wants to be in Mtl. Good job</div></div>
Dubois and Suzuki would be the Julien 2.0 version of Bergeron and Krejci. I agree with you on Romanov too, completely untouchable.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Fri at 11:32 am
Thread:
Dubois for Kotkaniemi
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>PreemoForGM</b></div><div>Want anyone from Chicago besides Kane for that value? Lol</div></div>
Will you retain 50% of Toews’ salary?
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Fri at 11:23 am
Thread:
Kotkaniemi for Dubois
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>habsfan01</b></div><div>Marc Bergevin better hang up the phone the moment KKs name is mentioned</div></div>
What’s your opinion on Dubois?
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Fri at 11:21 am
Thread:
Dubois for Kotkaniemi
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>dzad96</b></div><div>Keith Yandle and Bobrovsky to MTL for Weber and Price.</div></div>
Special.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Fri at 11:17 am
Thread:
Kotkaniemi for Dubois
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Bdawwwgy1</b></div><div>Get tex and bjorkstrand outta the bottom 6 tf</div></div>
FIFY
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Fri at 11:16 am
Thread:
Kotkaniemi for Dubois
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>villenash</b></div><div>I mean if a deal happens with MTL, it's gonna be one of their two young centers going back. Dubois is only 22, makes sense to swap young centers if you're trading for him. Doubt Suzuki is on the board, so KK is the only other option. Otherwise I think CBJ would just look elsewhere. I don't have any skin in the game, but that's how I would be looking at it if I were Jarmo.</div></div>
Suzuki’s asset value alone is worth more than PLD. Two seasons left at ELC salary in a flat cap environment. Both KK and Danault have to be on the table and I suspect Jarmo prefers KK, although Danault should be Tort’s type of player if Columbus is willing to pay his asking price for an extension.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Fri at 11:11 am
Thread:
Dubois for Kotkaniemi
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>dzad96</b></div><div>Dubios to the Habs for a trade revolving around Kotkaniemi? That's a new idea.</div></div>
What trade do you think has a higher probability of happening today?
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Fri at 11:10 am
Thread:
Dubois for Kotkaniemi
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>A_Habs_fan</b></div><div>That's way too much you're giving Dubois for essentially 3 firsts, a 2nd and a decent 3rd liner who is also a cap dump</div></div>
I agree with you. I don’t think it will cost that much. The point is that Bergevin can and will beat anyone else’s offer.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Fri at 11:04 am
Thread:
Dubois for Kotkaniemi
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>masterjuddi</b></div><div>"The best offer that Jarmo will ever get for Dubois is from Marc Bergevin today."
that's not true IMO
If PLD has a great year then his value will only increase and teams will have a better understanding of their cap at season's end.</div></div>
Just out of curiosity, you think that Dubois and Torts together all year will be a positive situation for the team? And one that will lead to Dubois having a great year?
Domi will get the better wingers and favourable matchups to try and make Jarmo’s Anderson trade look good.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Fri at 11:03 am
Thread:
Dubois for Kotkaniemi
..
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Jan 14 at 11:47
Thread:
Dubois
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>villenash</b></div><div>I don't think Armia needs to be involved -- so yeah, change the 2nd to a 1st and remove Armia. That's about as far as I would go. Dubois hasn't really shown he's a true 1C except maybe a bit in these past playoffs for only a handful of games. I just feel like his value is being overblown on this site because he is a young C with high draft pedigree -- but he hasn't quite reached that next level in his game yet (I am well versed in young C with high draft pedigree from CBJ, and look how Johansen has turned out -- just saying). I believe he'll be a great player for a lot of years, but people are acting like McDavid is available with some of the trades I've seen lol</div></div>
I agree with you re: Dubois thus far. He hasn't proven to be among the elite yet, but I strongly believe that he'll get there. Things that I believe to be true in his case:
A) We're trying to win this year and next and he's more advanced than where JK is right now in trying to help us accomplish that goal.
B) His contract works perfectly for the Habs. His cap hit is an appropriate benchmark for what we will need to pay our other centers, and it likely puts a ceiling on both Danault and Suzuki's next contracts.
In short, he's worth way more to us than he is to Columbus (or arguably any other team in the league). Bergevin and Jarmo already came together once on a trade for core players, it's hardly a stretch to think that they'll be able to do it again. Especially given that Dubois, his agent, and the team have gone public.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Jan 14 at 11:35
Thread:
Dubois
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Lenny7</b></div><div>I agree. I semi-like this one from another post, but think the 2nd should be a 1st instead:
Kotkaniemi, Jesperi
Byron, Paul
Caufield, Cole [Reserve List]
Armia, Joel
2021 2nd round pick (MTL)</div></div>
Just Kotkaniemi and Caufield would be too much. Armia and picks as well?
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Jan 14 at 11:34
Thread:
Dubois
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>villenash</b></div><div>waaaaaaaaaaay too much... Dubois is not worth 6 1st rounders, come on. Dubois is being completely overvalued on this site.
edit: unless you're talking about swapping out KK for a combination of others listed in the 2nd trade...</div></div>
Correct. Dubois wants out, and it's public to the point that the coach is sounding off over it. So he's not exactly overflowing with trade value right now.
If Jarmo doesn't want KK (which I doubt would be true), then he can be swapped for a combination of those other assets.
But assuming Columbus is going to sell to the highest bidder somewhere in the near future so that this doesn't become a distraction (e.g. Houston Rockets), it's hard to imagine many teams who are willing to move on from (for example) their recent top 3 pick from the NHL draft. I think the Habs can easily beat any other package that Jarmo gets offered with the pieces listed above, but it's possible that Jarmo is holding out for KK needing to be part of the package (or to not need to take on extra salary).
But as for what the exact trade package will end up being? I don't think it's going to take nearly as much as most people on this site think.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Jan 13 at 10:54
Thread:
Dubois
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Daredevil514</b></div><div>And none of those guys come close or has the potential to be as useful, productive and effective on both side of the ice than PLD. And even if they would accept a trade without a clear replacement, this one would not cut it. They won't trade him for question marks and at this point of their career, both Peolhing and Caufield are. A 1st also is one and Tatar is 30 year old pending UFA who's about to start his decline. This just does not make much sense for Columbus. I take Laine and Roslovic from the jets over this.</div></div>
So your point is the Habs would need to offer KK? What trade do you think would be logical for both?
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