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bjprice

bjprice
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Forum: Armchair-GMMay 28, 2018 at 10:34 a.m.
Thread: Blues off-season prediction, EDM, OTT, with explanation
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>MelnykOut</b></div><div>You can't be looking at raw numbers though. You have to see the context. He had 62 points in 58 games this year. On a team that had the 6th worst goals for. That's an 87 point pace. Even if he hits 80, that's an elite winger. Especially when you consider all the other aspects he brings like his steals and penalty killing. He is absolutely the best RW on the ice every game for that team, guessing you haven't watched many sens games in the past couple of years.

And when it comes to his age, yeah he's 26 but you have to realize that he was a very late round pick that took some time to develop.

But all both parties have both publicly stated that they want Mark Stone to be a senator long term. He wants to be here.

Also, I can almost guarantee you that Duchene and Stone will get +7MM deals this summer. And Karlsson should get 10, but if he wants more, they'll deal him and tell fans that he wanted too much. But I truthfully see all 3 signing this summer.</div></div>

For sure!

I do think Stone is more than just points - he is excellent on the boards and really strong as a 2-way winger.

All I am saying is that he isn't, you know, a top 5 winger in the NHL. Hell, Tarasenko is barely one. There are a lot of guys who are in the "hall of excellent", and Stone is another one of those guys.

I mean just look @ the names on lists like these <a href="https://www.nhl.com/news/top-20-wings-nhl-top-players/c-290655480" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">https://www.nhl.com/news/top-20-wings-nhl-top-players/c-290655480</a>

Its a different caliber. We are not discussing a trade for a guy like a perennial All Star skater or award vote getter. He is extremely good. But not the ... OMG best RW all time type stuff.

Like lets say Fabbri does recover, and you get Kyrou, STL's top prospect (well Thomas is but that is because he is a Center), and a couple 1st round picks. Fabbri has the chance, albeit risky, to be better than Stone by himself. Kyrou certainly looks like an NHL talent, but like any OHL prospect, that is a risk too. But then two 1sts also, including a 10OA (in this hypothetical). I just can't see anybody refusing something like that. And Doug Armstrong, STL GM, coming out saying "teams wanted 2 of our highly touted prospects"...well they weren't asking for that in return for Hoffman. And I know that Calgary will be all over any elite RW that comes up. And SJS if they lose the JT91 sweepstakes, Pavelski is getting OLD! and they have capspace.

Like the bidding is going to go nuts and you are going to get overpaid. I'm sticking by my 100% guarantee. I will eat all the crow if I am wrong but I've been doing this a very long time, and never been more sure of something.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 27, 2018 at 6:37 p.m.
Thread: Blues off-season prediction, EDM, OTT, with explanation
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>MelnykOut</b></div><div>You're clearly not very close to the situation. He'll get at least a 7x7 deal before the draft. He just turned 26. If they rebuild (they're not), then they'll do it around him. No offence meant either, but you couldn't be more wrong about the Stone situation, and you aren’t “building a foundation for the future” on the return of a Hoffman.

The only way I see him not here is if idiot Dorion let's someone offer sheet him but I doubt that happens.</div></div>

I mean an offer sheet for the unmatched salary for Stone nets you 2 1sts, 2nd n 3rd. That’s a lot...

So what would you want your GM to do if mine calls offering some heavy mix of (hypothetical) 10 OA, additional 29th OA, Fabbri, Kyrou, Thompson, Kostin, whatever. The futures and NHL ready assets are there and Stone fits many teams (Calgary, NYI, NYR, STL, and many more) needs like a glove. I think it becomes “we cannot refuse this”. I really do not think any of these teams are calling and offering stuff like that for 1 year of Hoffman, for example.

I mean if somebody wanted to pay a gigantic price for Hoffman, why wouldn’t they just pay that same price for the better Pacioretty.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 27, 2018 at 6:27 p.m.
Thread: Blues off-season prediction, EDM, OTT, with explanation
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>MelnykOut</b></div><div>You're clearly not very close to the situation. He'll get at least a 7x7 deal before the draft. He just turned 26. If they rebuild (they're not), then they'll do it around him. No offence meant either, but you couldn't be more wrong about the Stone situation.

The only way I see him not here is if idiot Dorion let's someone offer sheet him but I doubt that happens.</div></div>

Well I do recall a number of things I saw on TSN, so just plopped Rebuild Melnyk into google and tons of quotes come up.

All I can say is that if STL was in the same situation I’d want my GM to take an offer for Tarasenko if one came in that exceeded his value.

I mean, if you’re going to build a new core, which is essentially what the Senators owner said to season ticket holders very recently, you can either build a weak core by trading your least valuable assets or build a strong one.

I think Stone is worth every drop of 7 mil a year, hell im proposing my team trade for him....but he’s 26 and has never eclipsed more than 26 goals or 64 points. I’d go as far saying he likely has 2-3 all star game appearances in his next 5-7 years...but he isn’t exactly the best RW on the ice every night. He’s excellent, but you got guys under 21 scoring over 40....under 30 and 26 isn’t ... you know?

I honestly think Karlsson gets a 9.5 AAV+ offer and I don’t see a simultaneous 7 AAV + offer for Stone given the ownership situation and history. I think OTT knows they’ll have some really significant ticket sales issues if they let Karlsson go.

So anyway the owner has actually uses the words that describe a rebuild multiple times in very recent history. Because of that teams will call. When they call they’ll ask. When they offer it will be listened to.

I very very strongly believe that an offer will come for Stone that far exceeds his value, and it will be a situation where “no” cannot be said.

And honestly, if he were offer sheeted, based on his perceived compensation, you’d make out like bandits.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 27, 2018 at 12:25 p.m.
Thread: Blues off-season prediction, EDM, OTT, with explanation
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>MelnykOut</b></div><div></div></div>

But one 100% stone cold guarantee from me is that:

He will move.

Your (unfortunately) cheap owner is not shelling out 7.5 AAV + AND simultaneously saying rebuild. It just doesn't make sense. Every team who is invited to the "we're going to rebuild" table is going to ask for him. He's the best piece available. You will get above market value for him because of that competition. It will become an offer that will not be refused. You will get a very good draft pick and a very good, but affordable player in return.

And no offense meant, but pretty likely he can't wait to get the hell out.

I bet you anything.

You will get fair value for him because a number of teams will have the solid futures to offer. But hes as good as gone.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 27, 2018 at 12:06 p.m.
Thread: Blues off-season prediction, EDM, OTT, with explanation
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Smokingun71</b></div><div>While I agree Parayko is better then Larsson this deal doesn’t make sense from the Oilers side. We are trading our best RHD for another RHD when we are lacking on that side plus have the possibility of getting another RHD like Dobson with the 10OA. I would rather trade Nurse straight up, who I think is a young Parayko just from the left side.</div></div>

Agreed - although giant difference in today's NHL between puck moving RHD and defense first RHD. Only reason STL can do this is because Pietrangelo is on the team, otherwise a non-starter.

The cost for EDM to acquire somebody like Parayko is a LOT, so can either upgrade and pay that price or buy without upgrade and pay waaaaay more. Something like Pulji + 10th OA + more and find a team willing to take a futures trade...
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 22, 2018 at 9:50 p.m.
Thread: Bob McKenzie Mike Richards comparable ROR trade and 3 other trades. Playoff team
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Chopper02</b></div><div>A) Don't even have facebook nor have I gone on a manor Berglund rant.
B) He still plays a 2-way style and while looking at the numbers help the cause, actually watching him play will yield the same results.
C) As he ages he's playing less. So while he's not playing as much, he still plays effectively.

Actually watch a full game and watch him away from the puck, and you'll notice he does all the little things right defensively which adds up to a bigger outcome. You're equating 2-way style and "perennial 2-way" play as the same thing. I am not. He's not Bergeron, Kopitar, Barkov or close to the level of elite two way players. But he is in fact a two way player himself.</div></div>

no he doesn't, which is why hes a UFA without a team.

You said he always played a 2-way style, I proved he didn't, you just kept typing.

You said he is a 2-way player, I provided every single last quantifiable way to prove it which he is miserable at, you just kept typing.

And you will just keep typing.

MAGA?

Doesn't matter.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 21, 2018 at 11:07 p.m.
Thread: Bob McKenzie Mike Richards comparable ROR trade and 3 other trades. Playoff team
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Chopper02</b></div><div>Let's see, I provided the fact he does play penalty killing minutes, he does takeaway pucks without giving them up. He's on the ice way more for goals for than goals against. So yeah, no evidence whatsoever.

I'm not saying he's an elite talent, but he is a two way center. Helps out in all areas, PK, PP, EV. Takes pucks away, doesnt give them up. He does block shots as evidenced by his numbers the last few years. But yeah, no evidence. What evidence have you given that proves he isn't? 78 points in his rookie season, That's it. Hitchcock applauded his two-way style in St. Louis. Again, Stastny was never an elite two way center which is what you seem to think i mean. I don't think he's an elite talent anymore. But he is a two way center by definition. Plays both ends, wins Faceoffs, plays PP, PK, takes pucks away and doesn't turn them over, and blocks shots. That's an overall game.</div></div>

Take your evidence.

Compare it to any player you consider a 2-way player.

Pick any of them.

He plays paultry PK minutes, and did not do so until Backes left.

His takeaways are tiny relative to actual 2-way skaters.

He doesn't block shots, doesn't matter what you type.

He is not a 2-way skater.

Go back to facebook and berglund rants.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 21, 2018 at 10:39 p.m.
Thread: Bob McKenzie Mike Richards comparable ROR trade and 3 other trades. Playoff team
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Chopper02</b></div><div>And I wouldn't call ROR proficient at blocking shots. He's okay. Stastny had 38 this season and stayed around that number the last couple seasons despite missing chunks of time with injury. He may not have had the most takeaways, but he didn't give up the puck much either. He still had over 40 takeaways again. But having a two way style also requires being smart with the puck in your own end which he was. Again, he's not an elite center by any means. He's not in my top 20. But he is a two-way 200 foot center. At this point in his career he isn't nearly as effective.</div></div>

And by your argument every player is a 200 foot player, because you don't need any evidence to make the claim. Jaskin is a 200 foot 2-way center. So is Bouwemeister. So is Allen. I am a 200-foot center. It doesn't matter. If you can't provide any one thing to back it up besides just saying it then I can just say it about anything too.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 21, 2018 at 10:37 p.m.
Thread: Bob McKenzie Mike Richards comparable ROR trade and 3 other trades. Playoff team
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Chopper02</b></div><div>He did play on the penalty kill. Averaged over a minute in fact (ROR only 1:33 this year) and averaged over a 1:30 last season, did take defensive zone draws, especially towards the end of the game.
He took more offensive zone draws because the Blues put him on a line with Tarasenko and they had literally No one else to win draws!

Stastny was used at both ends of the ice. Yeah, Backes (not a winner. Selke finalist)was great to have there as another solid two way guy.
And if you actually watched Stastny you would see how good he was as a two-way guy. Hitch used him effectively as both. Yeo couldn't because he wanted him to be offense only.

You are right that in his first year he was used as more of an offensive guy. But that quickly changed because he had to adapt and he did! ROR isn't a Backes replacement. He'd be replacing Stastny. Actually, Stastny was morw acknowledged for his defensive game than his offense game here. Did you not watch? The one thing he did excel at here was helping out in his own end. He's not the best 2-way guy. That much is true, but he is a 2 way guy. To not acknowledge what he can do defensively is ludicrous.
Besides, really effective 2-way guys aren't a career -50 like ROR has been. Again, not saying Stastny is better than ROR at this point, but that's who ROR is replacing. You can disagree with that if you want, but if you look at Stastny's game, he is effective at both ends of the ice, with or without the puck.</div></div>

I was wrong about Backes winning a Selke versus running up. Memorial cup beers beating me up.

But there is absolutely no defensive category where you can say "Stastny was average here". Not good, not above average, not even average.

Paul Stastny is bad at the defensive side of hockey based on the 14 years of career stats.

You can corsica.hockey any selke nominee and look at how Stastny is not in the same league over any stat over even his best year.

You can't just type "2-way player" and have it be true. There has to be some evidence. Some number.

I've held Blues season tickets for awhile...I've watched the games.

ROR is not a Paul Stastny replacement as you've typed. That just is not true.

He would fill the same ice time, but he's substantially better at the measurable defensive stats than Paul was while on one of the leagues worst defensive teams while Paul was atrocious on one of the leagues best defensive teams.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 21, 2018 at 9:40 p.m.
Thread: Bob McKenzie Mike Richards comparable ROR trade and 3 other trades. Playoff team
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Chopper02</b></div><div>Stastny fills both of those requirements for a 2-way center. If you can't see that, maybe you need to watch a little more of Stastny play. Again, he wasn't an elite center by any stretch (neither is O'Reilly by the way) but both are solid 2-way centers. At this point in their careers respectively, ROR is the more effective player. In part because he is younger. But getting him would just be like getting Stastny several years ago. It won't make a difference. Blues only hope Thomas can be that Bergeron/Couturier type of player. Will he is the question. And even though Plus/Minus isn't everything, if you're a negative player year in and year out, chances are you're not that great defensively. ROR was a positive player once in his career. That's pretty telling especially since he puts up decent offensive numbers. I've watched him play, he's not that much better than Stastny at this point in his career. He's a 2C at best just like Stastny. He wouldn't make that big of a difference on the Blues</div></div>

Stastny played essentially 0 Short handed ice time the past 5 years = not 2 way

Stastny was brought in for more offensive draws than defensive draws the past 5 years = not 2 way

Stastny has very few body checks per season = not 2 way

Stastny has very few take aways relative to ice time per season = not 2 way

Stastny not recognized at anytime as a defensive forward for league awards which he could have been a 40th place vote getter which I would count and he wasn't = not 2 way

Stastny not profficient at blocking shots = not 2 way

Paul Stastny played 18-21 minutes every single night. Show me one way that he was even equal to a replacement level skater at defense, which is HALF of a "2-way" skater". You can't, because he isn't a 2-way skater as you said "he always was".

He wasn't "always" a 2-way skater (never was, and is not today). Colorado used him as a 1-way offensive playmaker and he thrived. I proved that.

Your original statement is that ROR is just a Stastny replacement because they are the same player.

You.

Are.

Wrong.

Stastny's inability to be a 2-way player as Hitch used him was covered by Backes who WAS a Selke WINNER.

ROR is a Backes replacement, not a Stastny replacement. You don't understand.

I guarantee you are too busy on STL Blues facebook raging about Berglund to reply. Doesn't matter. You don't understand hockey. A player isn't a 2-way player because you type it. There is a set list of things a 2-way player needs to at least be adequate at. Stastny was BAD at ALL of those things. BAD. So bad that the best defensive team in the league couldn't get him a ******* 40th place in the league nomination for the ******* award. He is BAD at defense. That is why he is a "later bro" UFA center on a team who REALLY needs a center.

Or **** it, I can take your logic and type "Fabbri is a 2-way center and we dont need ROR".

It doesn't matter than Fabbri isn't a 2-way skater.

Or that he isn't a center.

Or that he didnt even ******* play last year.

If I type hes a 2-way center then he is, based on your logic.

So we don't need ROR.

Go back to facebook. Go back to just typing Berglund sucks and getting your likes.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 21, 2018 at 11:57 a.m.
Thread: Bob McKenzie Mike Richards comparable ROR trade and 3 other trades. Playoff team
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Chopper02</b></div><div>You can be a 2 way center and not be in the 10 delle nominees year end year out. Very few players can do that. Hitch had a heavy Trocheck, but it was a defense first system. Stastny is still a 2 way center. Is he one did the top defensive centers? No. Again, very few players are. Stastny had the great playmaking ability as well as being a very good defensive center. Defensively he was fine for the Blues. He couldn't do it offensively because you can't force chemistry on players. That's why he's a solid 2 C, not a 1 c. The problem with Stastny is he's older now in a league full of young speedsters. Just because he's not a top 10 center, doesnt mean he isn't a 2 way center. ROR is a solid defender as well, but he has struggled the last several years as well. That's why Colorado was willing to let him go.</div></div>

You understand the term 2-way center yes? It is an actual set of attributes which define performance: The ability to control play through both offensive ability and defensive ability. You cannot be a 2-way center if you are not at least average at offense and defense. If you are pretty good offensively and replacement level defensively, you are not a 2-way center because your coach puts you in that role. A 2-way center has to be able to pressure the puck consistently and play in-front of both nets. That is just what they have to do to get that title.

It would be like calling a slow person fast because you make them run all the time. They may be running, but they are still slow.

I mean, think about it - STL has had one of the most successful defensive systems in the salary cap era - and STL's "2-way center" received essentially 0 recognition for 2-way play. How is that possible? He isn't a 2-way center. That is how.

ROR also left Colorado after an Avalanche (heh) of drama rumors surrounding multiple contract negotiations - Colorado was not willing to let him go - <a href="https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/nhl-rumors-might-avs-ryan-oreilly-be-staying-in-khl-longer/" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/nhl-rumors-might-avs-ryan-oreilly-be-staying-in-khl-longer/</a>

ROR wanted to go.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 21, 2018 at 11:09 a.m.
Thread: Bob McKenzie Mike Richards comparable ROR trade and 3 other trades. Playoff team
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Chopper02</b></div><div>Stastny is a 2-way center who the Blues tried to force to be a Tavares like center. But since he's not that, he didn't work with Tarasenko very well. Stastny has always been a 2-way guy.</div></div>

Ok.

That is why Colorado used him on their 1st scoring line and PP1 when he was putting up 78 points in 82 games, 71 points in 66 games, 79 points in 81 games, etc.

He was used and was successful as a playmaking center while being protected as a young skater. As Colorado exposed him to tougher and tougher minutes, he did not continue to excel above the competition, but was more than serviceable.

STL thought that would transition to Hitch's heavy fore-check system and it did not, because Stastny lacks the playmaking ability to overcome Central Division match-ups in the role of 1C when the line-up protection is gone, and Stastny was relegated to the heavy 2-way game which he was not known for, his body is not built for, and did not excel at.

Paul Stastny has not always been a 2-way guy (relative to using that term to describe actual 2-way centers such as the top 10 Selke candidates year in year out), and is not particularly good at it (relative to the elite competition of the NHL). He is nowhere near tough or consistent enough to play that game (for 82 games of a regular season and playoffs). I'm prefacing all of this because he is obviously very good at hockey, but he has never been good enough with his stick to take the puck away consistently, he is nowhere near fast or conditioned enough to cover both sides of the ice, and he is not good enough with his body to separate the puck from the opposition. For his time in STL he was just a skilled guy on the ice filling a role that his body and play style did not fit. Stupid to blame him - blame Hitch for his system, or Yeo for not escaping from it fast enough, if you think blame needs to be cast. But regardless, Stastny is, and would have been much more effective if used in an offensive based system as a playmaking center, not used as a 2-way plug on a forecheck heavy defensive minded club in a physical division.

TL;DR: if Stastny were a natural 2-way center as you’ve stated, then why did he not even land 40th on Selke ballots over 12 of his NHL seasons, including many on a stacked perineal playoff contender. The rhetorical answer is, because he is not a 2-way center. He’s just a guy who was forced into that role because his coach forced a style which demanded that - and in that time he was so poor at the role that he was not even acknowledged as being adequate at it.

If you compare him to actual 2-way guys like ROR who are good at taking the puck back, separating players from the puck, and playing in front of both nets, you will see why you are mistaken.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 20, 2018 at 10:56 a.m.
Thread: Blues what do you say
Would not be interested in a 25 y/o who is at roughly 14 minutes of ice time - STL's roster is jam packed full of these guys. Our needs are on the top ends which Fabbri has a chance to be, albeit risky due to the knee.

Additionally, STL is a defense-oriented club, so any player who needs 60/40 splits in offensive zone/defensive zone draws at that age would not fit the club's playstyle. Totally cool to protect/hide 20-23 year olds as they develop their bodies, but at 25 you cannot put up so few points and command so many o-zone draws unless your defensive game is severely lacking.

I think in this case I'd want STL to politely pass.

For comparison's sake, a guy like Silfverberg out of Anahiem would fit STL's needs in this point production region (30-50 pts, 15-25 goals per year from the wing, 2nd unit PP at best). He has the ATOI to shutdown opposition and the exact opposite zone starts as Sheary: Silfverberg is 40 offense/60 defense. Rumors are he's available, and if an extension were included, that would be a better destination for Fabbri (if Anahiem wanted him).
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 19, 2018 at 4:52 p.m.
Thread: Bob McKenzie Mike Richards comparable ROR trade and 3 other trades. Playoff team
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>sabres1108</b></div><div>thanks i think its fair since you guys get the best player in the trade but we still get some peices back for the future. With Casey Mittelstadt likely tomtake the #2 C spot in 1-2 years there no sense in us keeping and paying ROR on third line for 7.5 mil. STL needs a C and is in more of a win now mode with Tarasenkon and Pietrangelo in their primes while BUF needs younger skilled players to surround Eichel and Dahlin with.</div></div>

Exactly: it’s a great age fit for both teams and while STL does get the sure thing in ROR, the pieces going the other way all offer RFA control for years.

With Eichel, Middelstadt, and Reinhart you center depth is top tier for a decade. Add Risto and Dahlin on the backend...so good.

I have a really strong feeling something like this will happen: just fits both clubs objectives so well while not screwing each other over.

And given Reinharts play in the 2nd half of this season...

I was at Buf Stl in STL sometime in the winter and remember thinking “why is everybody giving this dude ****” because he made tons of plays behind our net and was so solid. Also I think Eichel raged out after we won in OT and wrecked his stick on the net :P

I’m fully on your damn bandwagon when you’re good in a year or two - your announcer is the best and your fan base is loyal af.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 18, 2018 at 7:04 a.m.
Thread: Parayko to Edmonton that works for STL's roster
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>StLHockey</b></div><div>So why downgrade the D for pick which will only push back the year of contention? Makes no sense, now if you start with the idea of Drai and Parayko we could get something worked out</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BluesGetTheCup</b></div><div>Yeah this just makes no sense?</div></div>



Wel, the purpose of the post was in response to two other posts which were sending an LHD and the 10OA to STL for Parayko.

I was putting this trade up after stating that STL has no RHD depth, so if EDM wanted Parayko an RHD would have to come back.

Does it make sense? No - but if something like this did happen you’d have to think the 10OA would go as the main piece in a package for a guy like Stone from Ott.

Was not implying STL should downgrade for a pick, in other words.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 17, 2018 at 7:23 p.m.
Thread: Nurse trade to St Louis
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Goilersfan1215</b></div><div>That depends if St Louis scouting likes a RHD available at 10 OV. Oilers are trying to win and compete next season. St Louis traded Paul Stastny at the deadline and have a great crop of forwards coming up</div></div>

True, except the vast majority of upper tier (not Norris tier) defenseman do not really fill the top 4 role until age 21 or so.

And STL’s main core is in the 25-29 age group right now.

So unless STL was super sure they could pluck a drew Doughty at 10OA, they’re taking a substantial downgrade for 1-3 years, which would be fine except that really screws with the Schenn, Schwartz, Tarasenko, Pietrangelo, etc group.

Would totally be down if STL had even a wing and a prayer at RHD, but that cupboard is super empty right now, and I doubt any 10OA pick could slot in next season nor find any serviceable option who would not want more than 1-2 yrs of term.

I just don’t think it would be fair to the majority of the team to downgrade such an important position for 10OA.

Maybe a 3-way where a rhd heads to STL, idk, but I doubt Parayko goes without some type of replacement coming back.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 11, 2018 at 11:27 p.m.
Thread: Karlsson while improving the top 6
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BeastModeUnknown</b></div><div>That is also why I feel JBo and Bergie is Army top 2 priorities. Not trading them but making the decision to get picks for them or just wait until a good opportunity comes around or their contract is up.</div></div>

I personally believe, even with Robert Thomas coming next year, that STL should keep Berglund.

So let’s play this out:

Berg goes for a pick. A late 1st, or even a 5th - value not important.

Thomas takes 3C next year.

Thomas is decent. And the following year he’s looking at 2C.

Who plays 3C then? It’s 2 short years away in this hypothetical - we just roll with a rando at 14-17 min ATOI against top opposition? That rando gonna have positive Corsi and net 20? Doubtful.

Teams need guys who are less than stars.

I’ve seen many “trade for Tyler Johnson” posts, especially last year.

He’s a 20goal 3C who signed a 5aav 7 year contract and he’s even Corsi despite having absurd team depth. They’re all like this, except on teams with a lot of developing players who wish they had this “reliable” production at such an impactful role. These players do not make clubs great, but having no suitable replacement makes you a lottery pick.

The only reason TBL can sign bad contracts like this is because they’re able to convince enough players that their state tax benefits offset lower AAVs.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 11, 2018 at 11:15 p.m.
Thread: Karlsson while improving the top 6
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BeastModeUnknown</b></div><div>I have not takin any offense, but I am not trading a 2nd for an inconsistent player. If you look at his stats most of his points are at the beginning and end of the season.</div></div>

Same applies to Gunnarson.

He’s an absolutely solid bottom pairing guy- and whether it’s here or twitter or Reddit it’s easy for people to completely discount what they provide.

Of course Gunnarson is not amazing. He makes less than 3 mil a year. He gets literally 0 pp time, nearly 0 time with guys like 91 or 27. His job isn’t that...yet every off season I read hundreds of people just trashing him, Berglund, etc.

If we’re going to ***** about this roster - Doug Armstrong needs to think about RW and LHD. We had Troy Brouwer - not great at hockey, filling 2RW roles and Boowemeister’s injury exposed our massive LHD depth void - if Dunn were not exceeding expectations STL would have been looking really good at the draft lottery.

The problems aren’t cost effective guys who aren’t stars - it is gigantic holes where players are much worse than average replacements at their respective jobs.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 11, 2018 at 11:00 p.m.
Thread: Karlsson while improving the top 6
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BeastModeUnknown</b></div><div>I have not takin any offense, but I am not trading a 2nd for an inconsistent player. If you look at his stats most of his points are at the beginning and end of the season.</div></div>

The problem is teams need somebody to take 14-17 minutes of ice at third line center.

They’re all as bad as any player in their late 20s, early 30s who can only pull off a 3-5 mil aav contract.

Berglund is excellent for STL because he does that at such a small cap hit.

Hanzal shows that the value for this player is higher than a 2nd. It’s an upgrade Dallas was willing to use cap instead of the trade route for - and I guarantee they are not alone.

If Berglund were more consistent, he would cost more or have an elevated role - except you cannot have 5 mil aav players on your 3rd and 4th line and simultaneously have a competitive top 6 and top 4.

I didn’t intend the words I typed earlier to sound so personal - I have a thing against the circle jerk that is hate on players like Berglund or Sundqvist who are actually competitive advantages for STL and things that are desired by every single club in the league.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 11, 2018 at 5:32 p.m.
Thread: Karlsson while improving the top 6
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BeastModeUnknown</b></div><div>Blues would rather keep Kostin and Kyrou rather than spend on EK. Plus Ottawa wouldn’t accept. Bergie isn’t worth a 2nd. Although I like Tyler Toffoli I wouldn’t give a 1st for him. And Sobotka and Jaskin are worth more than just a 4th</div></div>

Berglund is paid 3.85 AAV

Martin Hanzal is paid 4.75 AAV

Martin Hanzal was a trade deadline move in 2016-17 which resulted in a 1st and 2nd.

Patrick Berglunds ATOI is higher than Hanzal, he records more goals per hour, points per hour.

Martin Hanzal is a negative shot generator. Patrick Berglund is a positive shot generator.

They are the same age.

Patrick Berglund is worth more than a 2nd.

Blues fans who do not understand hockey think Berglund sucks because picking on him is easy because nobody wants to defend something so inconsequential. Hes the 3rd line centre/winger. He earns less than 10% of the cap. No hockey team is made or broken by the 3rd line center, even when a division rival had to pay somebody 25% more who is much worse at hockey.

Hating on him makes you dumb. Nothing more. No offense personally meant. Do some research instead of joining the jerk that is propagated by people who have no idea how hockey works.