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Forum: Armchair-GMMon at 3:54 pm
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LoganOllivier</b></div><div>When Kane and Toews were coming off their ELC's was a very different time than today. Look at the bridge deals top guys signed for back then it was 6 year deals around 5 million. No chance anyone signs stuff like that anymore. The two options TO had was to go to a 2-3 year deal with the final year being close to or over 10 million or the money they ended up getting long term. I don't think anyone was going to get Matthews at his cap hit for 8 years. Marner wouldn't have signed for 8 years at 9 million if Lou was in charge. He probably would have been traded.

The point I am arguing here is that Lou is so much better than Dubas. Dubas is getting crapped on because he is A) young and B) doing things differently than old school guys. People don't like change and many fight their hardest to prevent change. Look at LA for crying outloud, they have been trying to make being a big, slow, old team work for the past 5 seasons since they won their cup (I ball parked it, not sure how long ago they won, but they haven't been good since). How many people on here still talk about the need to have a big shutdown defenceman and then point at guys who are not at all shutdown defenceman. Like is Adam Larsson really a shutdown defenceman? Or is Ducan Kieth? (More when he was in his prime) If I had a dollar for everytime someone has told me TO needs a quality right handed shutdown defenceman and then mention the likes of Larsson, or Mayfield or Martinez I wouldn't need a job. I know I am going off topic a bit but seriously people just say stuff because that's how it was and so its the same thing now and always will be. Meanwhile the game evolves, the market changes and most GM's are behind by about 2-3 years and fighting to keep everything the same. Dubas doesn't do that, and because he's both young and is evolving with the game, he's made out to be a huge failure when he's had all of 1 full season at the helm and had a lot of cleanup to do because of the poor choices Lou made.</div></div>

I'm not comparing Lou to Dubas. Wasn't ever trying to do that. VERY Different questions that shouldn't be mixed. Give Lou some Credit for NYI...period...end of question.

Insert different line for different question entirely

Dubas with TOR has things he needs to work out. Saying...different time...I just hear excuses. I don't mean that as an attacking thing at all. The only thing that's changed in the cap ceiling (but we can compared %'s of total cap) and the idea the GMs these days want to pay players before they've actually done anything. I listed Three different examples of bridge deals this offseason. It's far from dead and IMO should be used more.
Forum: Armchair-GMMon at 3:27 pm
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LoganOllivier</b></div><div>I don't think a team is cap trouble when they don't have any bad contracts. Matthews, Tavares, Nylander and Marner will all earn their money, because they are indeed star players. In TO's case, bridge deals would have been terrible. In 2 years, Adnersen needs a contract, in 3 years Rielly needs a contract. If TO would have given their guys short deals like most of the other RFA's got, would have made for massive issues later on. Plus what kind of long term money would have been thrown around if they had the money to throw around? Who is even available? When you judge Dubas's work form the perspective of comparing his deals to mainly Point's contract, its both short sighted and an incorrect way to look at it. So many GM's in this league operate for this season and that's all they really seem to care about. How do I make this season a success? That is where guys make all the wrong decisions. Overpay this FA because we need a 2nd Pair LHD and when that doesn't work. Dubas hasn't done that, he has the 4th youngest team in the NHL and zero bad contracts. His tenure is still in its infancy and should be looked at from both a short term and long term. Short term, he didn't want to go with short term bridge deals, because they will without a doubt end up causing bigger problems later on. Long term, they have no bad contracts and lots of flexibility. Could he have been better? Maybe, who knows, but to say he's been terrible is just ignorant. To suggest that Lou would have been better is an absolute joke, Shanahan axing him saved this core's chances of winning together. Imagine what he would have done with Nylander's contract? He would have traded him for some vet with sand paper and used the money he saved to resign Komarov.</div></div>

You're going to say they're not in cap trouble when they have $0 in cap to work with? I'm not saying Lou would have been better. I'm saying Lou made the most of what he had and deserves part of their success in New York. Completely different questions. We'll see. I can tell you with 100% certainty that having Kane/Toews at a combined $12.6M helped win 2 cups. There's more than 1 way to do so and for your sake I hope TOR can change that approach.
Forum: Armchair-GMMon at 2:55 pm
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LoganOllivier</b></div><div>Why I get so annoyed with the whole Dubas sucks mentality is because the only reason anyone believes that crap is because Marner, Matthews and Nylander got longer term contracts. Are star players ever the reason at team has cap issues? Is Edmonton's problem the money they pay McDavid and Draisaitl? Matthews makes the most on the team and is leading them in points and is 6th in the league? Is that a bad signing? Is Kane's contract the problem in Chicago? No it isn't.

What are problem contracts in this league? Its depth guys making big money. Yzerman gets nothing but praise but he has made a lot of bad signings and won precisely zero cups. Did Bowman not give the contracts to Crawford and Seabrook? Both of those are problem contracts. Trading Panarin for Saad?

Honestly what has Dubas done bad? He signed Marner, Matthews to big contracts. People also through Nylander's contract into that as well but really is that one bad? He's heating up and is on pace for a career year and makes less than 7 million a year. If anything that is his best piece of work. My point is, Dubas has assembled a terrific roster and his team isn't yet operating as good as they should. Whats going to be the case when they actually play up to their potential? Its just all too much and so stupid.</div></div>

I don't like the trend these days (and it's everyone, not just Dubas) where contracts are given out before anything has been earned. Crawford isn't a bad contract. That's injuries. How do you predict that? Seabrook was bad. Bickell was bad. I'm not saying Bowman doesn't have his own faults...I actually think I said the opposite, hoping he learns from his mistakes...BUT these guys did something.

You say...what's a bad contract? I say let's name a few good ones...and that'll lead us to the bad ones. It's not always the dollars and cents it's the approach.
Charlie McAvoy - This is a contract that sets Charlie up for an ~$8M per year deal next contract. He understand his role with the B's both today and down the road.
Alex Debrincat - Come 2023 he'll get a $9M per year contract as an RFA...or he'll make a deal if he doesn't live up to it. BUT it's $6.4M for guy with 41 goals last year.
Brayden Point - Probably the best contract out of the three.

I'd say the error Dubas made was that all of his contracts are long term contract. There wasn't any diversity in his approach. 3 years down the road...these will look good, I'm sure. But did TOR really need to wait that long? Why are they in cap troubles now? How confident are we that other teams won't catch up talent wise to TOR??? Even #1 OA and #3 OA picks can take bridge deals...Kane/Toews...That's something Bowman did that was REALLY good. I 100% reject the notion that guys like Matthews/Marner/Nylander can't be bridged. Shanahan is 100% right...what you remember are the victories, success, and the teammates. You don't remember if you were an $11M Cap hit or $10M cap hit. We can point fingers and whatever we want to show why someone does or doesn't bridge, but you better believe having Kane's Toews @ $12.6M in cap combined helped in 2010 and 2013.
Forum: Armchair-GMMon at 2:14 pm
Forum: Armchair-GMMon at 1:55 pm
Forum: NHL SigningsMon at 12:41 pm
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 8 at 5:21
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 8 at 5:08
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 8 at 3:57
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 8 at 3:56
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LoganOllivier</b></div><div>Isn't he though? Saad doesn't look like a 6 million dollar player to me. Yes he has some intangibles that are valuable but he is getting paid like he is an offensive player and he doesn't really have that much offense. I like Saad, he's a good player, but if he's going to be compared to a player on the Leafs, he's a lot closer to Hyman than he is Nylander. Better hands than Hyman for sure but no one would move Hyman for someone like Elhers. Hyman is a 40-50 point winger who is a terrific forechecker, plays physical and can score 20 a season. Which right now, is pretty much what you can expect of Saad. Now don't take this as Saad is equal to Hyman, Saad is better. The point is, if you compare players in TO, Saad is closer to Hyman than Nylander. So trying to trade Saad for Nylander is grossly unfair which is where we have disagreed a tonne and I personally feel like you are just way out to lunch on this topic.

I do get the impression that you are similar to that Chihawk guy in the sense that you see the value of Nylander, know he's much better and way more valuable than Saad and talk him down in the hopes that his value will drop and you can get him prior to him breaking out.</div></div>

I can't even. I want to think you're just messing with me, but I don't even know anymore. Somehow...in your mind a 7 point delta makes Saad a Camp Dump and Nyalnder closer to Marner. Despite Saad actually having better career possession numbers, Actually plays defense... received actual votes for the Selke, and plays some PK time too.
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 8 at 3:03
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>A_K</b></div><div>Depends on your "results". If you're talking about raw point totals, you're not leveling the playing field. From 2016 through the end of last season, I looked at 5v5 P/60 rates. Nylander ranks 57th of players with over 1,000 5v5 minutes (he has about 3,000 for reference). So at 5v5 he produced more points per minute of ice time than guys like Wheeler, Boeser, Duchene, Aho, Rantanen, Connor, etc.

If you're looking for his results (raw point totals) to be top-tier, he would have to get top line minutes and top PP usage (on a quality PP team). IMO his results are there, if anything it's his usage that is curbing his trajectory.</div></div>

I agree. I'm not saying he's bad at all. Here's a better stat. Look at how far off Matthews stats drop without Nylander. BUT...let's not forget...if you read through this post...there was a truly serious comparison by Leafs fans to Marner vs Nylander. I'm trying to bring reality to TOR fans. Not say he stinks.

<a href="https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20192020&amp;thruseason=20192020&amp;stype=2&amp;sit=5v5&amp;score=all&amp;rate=n&amp;team=TOR&amp;vteam=ALL&amp;view=wowy&amp;loc=B&amp;gpfilt=none&amp;fd=2018-10-03&amp;td=2019-04-06&amp;tgp=2000&amp;strict=incl&amp;p1=8479318&amp;p2=8477939&amp;p3=0&amp;p4=0&amp;p5=0" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20192020&amp;thruseason=20192020&amp;stype=2&amp;sit=5v5&amp;score=all&amp;rate=n&amp;team=TOR&amp;vteam=ALL&amp;view=wowy&amp;loc=B&amp;gpfilt=none&amp;fd=2018-10-03&amp;td=2019-04-06&amp;tgp=2000&amp;strict=incl&amp;p1=8479318&amp;p2=8477939&amp;p3=0&amp;p4=0&amp;p5=0</a>
Forum: Armchair-GMNov 8 at 3:00