Jul 28, 2015
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<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div>I would NOT be trading ANY 1st rounders. Even next year. I hate to say it, but things can always get worse. I don't want that to happen, but it's possible. This team needs speed, but they can't sacrifice size. That's an incredibly hard thing to do. Yeah Debrincat/Kane do indeed score (sans Debrincat's current drought), BUT there are bigger and faster players that can score too. I find it hard to see this team getting better with MORE ~5'8" ~170lb wingers...that don't have blazing speed which neither of them do. IT'S OK to say they're not super fast. They're talented scorers, but we need diversity in our players.
Stan needs picks and to shed cap like Smith and maybe even Maatta (now that DeHaan is on the Hawks). $7M between Smith/Maatta could mean a guy like Hoffman or Dadonov.
***EDIT*** Oh and that doesn't solve their biggest problem which is even harder...a TRUE #1Dman.</div></div>
A Hoffman or Dadonov are a bandaid solution. This team desperately needs to get faster. Sakic signs Nichushkin for $850,000. Bowman needs do to some bargain hunting a find players who will increase the clubs team speed. Another Sakic bargain increasing team speed was Burakovsky. Colorado gave up a 2nd and 3rd and minor leaguer, who I can’t find in Capitals system. The Hawks gave up the same price to acquire Andrew Shaw.
Nothing against Shaw, but this team is losing hockey games in my opinion, due to a predictable and unproductive power play. If given a choice, who would you have on the power play; Shaw or Burakovsky?
If you need picks, then you are in a rebuild. If you deny you need to rebuild, then you used assets to fix those liabilities the team has. I am painfully aware this team is unable to complete with the NHL elite. What I seen to date this year ... #1 the plays better with lead, #2 their goaltending has been stellar and could steal some games if their offensive was producing. #3 Their power play is a let down. The Blackhawks won games last year, almost relying on the power play bail out the defence. #4 As a core, the defence is better than last year. To compete they need to get faster.
I think it is clear to many fans here that this team needs to begin a rebuild. The team’s core players are older (but have much value). It is time to move them before their value is diminished. The Hawks were embarrassed, swept to the Predators In the first round of 2017. They were beat by Nashville’s speed. Fast forward three years, and the Hawks speed remains a problem.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Caniac2000</b></div><div>Actually, at the allstar break they were out of the playoff pickture because Darling couldn't stop a beachball. Mrazek was average all year long, it never fluctuated, he stayed in the 25-30 range for most of his stats, which put him in the average category. Mrazek isn't a world beater, he's just Meh, Lehner has proven he's good when he's behind a good defensive system like in New York with Trotz, and that's what makes him desirable right now. What he's doing in Chicago is impressive, but for a team with such a strong defensive unit, it's actually better if he can stay concentrated during games when he doesn't see a lot of shots.</div></div>
Mrazek was 2.81 .894 at the break. 23 games. Went 1.83 .938 after and the break in 17games, back to 2.73 .894 playoffs so no he was lousy for half the year and great for part of it.
Darling only played 8 games and only 1 after Thanksgiving, blaming him for being out if the playoff hunt at break is ridiculous, and his numbers were very similar Mrazek 1st half. 🤷🏻♂️
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div>I wouldn't have had any issues with Dach being in the WHL. I also like your analysis about keeping him on the bottom 6. Strome needs to come back, but Dach does seem to be playing better down that vs with Kane. That's not a knock on anyone...just need to look at where/how he's producing and developing. Stan's far from all knowing. He's also still learning about Dach and hopefully helping build this team for the future. I see were talking about Bowen Byram again...so let's also keep in mind that it's not like Byram's mopping the floor with people down there. Being sub ppg in the minors and allowing more goals than last year can't be how he drew up his season after the playoffs he had last year. I know it's not even half way through their season so far, but pretty clear regression both offensively and defensively. Not at all saying he'll end up being a bad player. I still think he'll be a fine NHLer...just trying to keep things in perspective.</div></div>
I agree with your analysis of byram, it has been a tougher season. However, the flip to that analysis is looking closer at the giants themselves. The giants team is not the same team as it was last year. Far worse and byram is their greatest asset by far. Teams go in knowing exactly who to shut down. Essentially, the giants are what dach’s blades were last year.
Where byram and dach truly differ though is their pro teams. Byram can step into the Avs and absolutely be fine and adapt at a nice pace. That speaks to their coaching and playing style, which gives artistic freedom to their dmen. Dach is on the opposite side of that spectrum. I said this way back at the draft, but another big reason I didn’t like dach is because he isn’t a “Blackhawks Type.” What I mean is that in the past 12 years, we haven’t had a guy like him and have almost avoided guys like him. Big and slower just wasn’t the mantra of the hawks way. So when we drafted him, all I thought was this kid is in the worst place to develop as a player. The playing style is terrible for him. The players around him don’t emphasize his playing style (save for the 4th line). Finally, the coach is just plain bad, and I imagine he’s even worse for a kid’s development.
Don’t forget, byram’s comparable was Keith. We need a number one dman and we need it fast. Much faster than we needed a new center (which he doesn’t even look like he can play). None of our d prospects project as a number one. Boqvist is closest and he’ll be top 2 hopefully. Dach is just in the wrong place at the worst time though.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div><a href="/users/HatterTParty" target="_blank">@HatterTParty</a> The thing is...A lot of what you bring up doesn't have much to do with Stan at all though. I can site here and say Q is currently the best coach in the game and mean it. (I do for the record believe that) I can also say Stan's done a good job himself. Those comments are not linked. The only thing that gets linked is team success..and who needs a fall guy. Q was fired by John McDonough and Rocky Wirtz. YES, I understand that Stan and Q didn't get along great, but SO FREAKIN WHAT?! That's the point of upper management. John and Rocky could have just as easily fired Stan, BUT you know better than anyone...over the years Q's brought in "his guys" (Jamie Compon, Kevin Dineen, Mike Kitchen heck Kitchen is still his assistant in FLA) which is 100% fine! It's just when there's a carousel of "your guys" coming in and not fixing the problem...you're the fall guy. The situation is far more likely that no change was needed at all, but rather years and years of going for it @ the TDL making trades (that Q wanted too...cough cough Andrew Ladd...cough cough) like every team does depletes your farm system which happened.
This is a good transition to that Ladd Trade you referred to. The Hawks were firmly in Cup Contention. I mean, how could they not be? They were the reigning cup winners. I have ZERO problem with Stan trying to win another cup while the window is open. Everyone in the entire organization wanted him to make a move...yes even Q.
He's claiming it's a retool because he'll get fired if he doesn't. Rocky is a penny pincher and needs to sell tickets. Publicly saying that we're tearing this thing down while Toews/Kane are still on the team...while Debrincat/Strome are under just got into bars a few months ago...while we have young prospects ready to come into the NHL...would be a bad move. What would we be tearing down for anyway? Another 3rd OA pick. We got (3) of those all at various ages. In the end this is a business and Rocky needs to sell tickets.
I'm a believe in a retool. It's nice to have DeHaan, but in all seriousness...they don't have a #1Dman. Keith is at best a #2. Matta/DeHaan/Murphy are all good middle to bottom pair guys, but Where's the John Carlson, Victor Hedman, Brent Burns, etc... They don't have him anymore and it's hard to get one when Seabrook has $7M along with Toews/Kane getting $21M.
I agree that Stan's fault is extending his own players. Seabs, Bickell, Panik, etc... But he has gotten better at that. Gus for $1.2M is 1 example. I'd also say that he brings an element most GMs don't have. You bring up Panarin, but that's only because Stan stuck to his word and allowed Panarin to get his Schedule B bonus. Yes...it was on the 82nd game of the year firmly in the playoffs... That takes guts, but that also pays dividends. Guys like Kahun, Kampf, Kubalik, Kempny, Rutta, Wedin, and yes...even...Panarin. All CHOSE to come to Chicago. Not all of them when Q was here either. Yes, most of that due to the players, but part of that because if you sign your bonuses...you'll get a shot at them.
Again, I wouldn't have fired either of these guys. Going for it year after year is tough on a farm system, but we're at where we're at. I still wouldn't fire Stan...yet...he's made too many good moves recently.</div></div>
Gotta say, I do love what you have to say. It is all very true and speaks to other issues at work with moves that were made.
That being said, the only question I have in response to your argument is: is it actually possible to make this team compete again when all we’re gonna do is retool? You argue that rocky needs to sell tickets and by proxy Stan can’t say “rebuild” cuz he’d be fired. As far as I’m concerned then, this team will never compete for a cup till Kane and toews retire. By then, years of debrincat and strome are wasted. Along with boqvist, beaudin, Mitchell, and dach. Dach could have a decent career in the NHL, who knows? But he’s not winning or even helping to win a Stanley cup with this team. This core is garbage now. De Haan is all well and good, but besides Keith and Murphy, he doesn’t have anything to work with. Not to mention our defense can’t skate or move the puck. Retooling is just patching holes on sinking ship hoping to get to port before the whole thing goes down.
So again, I ask, is it really possible for this to compete if all we do is retool?