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fangm
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Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
8 hours ago
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>That line really has not been good. Its had moments but when u look at the stats opposing teams do more dmg when they on the ice
SF 18
SA 23
CF 37
CA 53
GF 4
GA 3
A defensive playmaker is what you want to help ease the load off JT and when we look at when JT and Marner have played together results were good. For Willy and JT its always way to streaky
Nylander can score on any given line. Marner's playmaking is best suited for when there is a top center with him to utilize his passes
We saw it with Domi, Matthews, and JT at times this season. In the end it better helps the depth scoring to have Marner paired with JT and Nylander to drop down with Holmberg and Jarnkrok
Bertuzzi-Matthews-Domi
Knies-JT-Marner
Jarnkrok-Holmberg-Nylander
Dewar-Kampf-McMann</div></div>
I'd be more inclined to go with these lines solely because Willy can carry a line and Marner can't. He needs JT more than Willy does.
That being said, I'd like to see:
Bert-Matthews-Domi
McMann-JT-Marner
Knies-Holmberg- Nylander
Dewar-Kampf- Jarnkrok
I think that 4th line can eat 70%+ of your D-Zone draws even against 1st lines. And all you need them to do is start in the D zone and get a faceoff in the O-Zone or dump and change. Then let the other three lines attack.
Similar to how Tampa deploys the Paul line so that their top 6 doesn't waste minutes paying defense.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
8 hours ago
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
Anyone else who feels that the best think that cold happen right now is to lose a few games and lock in the 1st WC.
I feel like Toronto would matchup very well against either NYR or Carolina.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Sun. at 9:05 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Trust me it would u dont put a guy almost making 11m down there. Its not a good look
U can put Domi down there its fine but Marner people will notice it fast and he will not be happy</div></div>
If he still plays 25mins a might nobody will care.
On average in playoff games there are 4 penalties per team. So that is 8mins of PK and 8 mins of PP. Marner will get 5.5mins of PK and 5.5mins of PP.
If he gets another 9 mins with the third line (which is about 20% of the 5v5 time) plus takes an extra 2 shifts on the first line and 2 shifts on the second line then that is 23-24mins of ice time assuming at no point the bench is shortened.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Sun. at 9:02 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Keefe is not in charge of special teams. You have assistant coaches for a reason
Keefe is not in charge of the PP and PK
The guys in charge of those are Guy Boucher and Dean Chynoweth
His job is to go to those guys and go okay why this not working
Leafs PK issues make no sense as Dean Chynoweth was CAR PK coach for a long time</div></div>
Buck stops with the head coach. It's been bad under him no matter who he has had as his assistants.
We also know he overrules his assistants cause Boucher didn't get to build the PP the way he wanted to. And both Sheldon and Guy has publicly said that.
The PK is horrible they play a 2-1-1 which is absurd and is not at all what Carolina plays or ever played. It's a hyper aggressive PK designed to create scoring chances (hence why he uses Nylander, Marner, Matthews as PK guys regularly).
The best example to me of how bad the PK is was Dewar's first game when he was blamed for a shorthanded goal because he was out of position on the PK. To anyone who has any serious experience coaching or playing they would say Dewar was in the right position because weather you are playing a diamond or a box he was covering a key passing lane. Problem is the leafs play a completely dysfunctional system where they essentially make the coverage calls on the fly which is what led to the goal. Obviously Dewar has adjusted now but when a top PK guy comes in and can't understand your system you know it's messed up.
Lafferty is another example of a guy who was scratched cause he couldn't play Keefe's system then goes to Vancouver and is a top PK guy (as he was before in Chicago).
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Sun. at 8:56 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>If Marner was put on the third line it would be a way bigger deal than 6.8m Kessel</div></div>
I don't think so. Most people have been calling for them to split the 3 up for a long time.
Keefe started the year with Willy on the 3rd line.
Marner has also struggled a lot in the playoffs at 5v5 so there is some logic to playing him against lesser opposition. They did it with Rielly last year and it made him look like a star.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Sun. at 8:54 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Messier99</b></div><div>PP + PK should be >= 100% (maybe 105% for a better team).
Today (CAR) = 67% (L)
(EDM) = 93% (W)
(WAS) = 80% (W)
(PHI) = 133% (L)
(CAR) = 60% (L)
(PHI) = 67% (W)
(MTL) = 80% (W)
(BOS) = 85% (L)
(BUF) = 100% (W)
(BOS) = 50% (L)
So in past 10 games, Leafs are 5 Wins, 5 Losses. But in terms of the special teams battle, Leafs are 1 Win, 1 Tie, 8 Losses.
It's another example of making life harder for themselves.
I thought PK was biggest problem heading into the deadline, and result show they didn't address it.</div></div>
A lot of this is on Keefe.
Idk who else here has played at a high level but it's very apparent to me that they have horrible systems. On the PK and PP.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Sun. at 8:53 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Kessel wasnt making 10m lul</div></div>
He had a similar % of the cap.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Sun. at 8:52 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Leafsfan98</b></div><div>What's up with your hate with Matthews? He literally had 6 shots and 9+ attempts... Freddie was unbelievable
But this team was mostly let Woll down at 5v5, from the Strat of the 3rd to 11 mins and zero shots when you're down 2 is horrible and embarrassing</div></div>
Matthews hate isn't warranted but he definitely just doesn't show up to 20/30 games a year. Sheldon has pretty much admitted as much.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Sun. at 8:51 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>U dont put a 10.9m guy on the third line
Either drop Marner to play with Tavares or Domi goes back to 3c.</div></div>
Pittsburgh won with Kessel on the third line. It's a strategy that works.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Sun. at 8:31 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LeafsFanForSomeReason</b></div><div>EXACTLY
And as much as Robertson isn’t a hard-nosed forechecker, he’s more than capable of being quick on pucks and disruptive to Dmen trying to breakout, and I think Matthews/Marner/Willy really thrive with that because they’re so good at anticipating what guys are gonna do under pressure and take advantage
I REALLY wanna see it.</div></div>
If there is one thing that we 100% need to do soon is split Nylander/Marner/Matthews. Imagine how deep that team would be. Personally I would do:
Bertuzzi - Matthews - Domi
McMann - Tavares - Nylander
Robertson - Holmberg - Marner
Knies - Kampf - Jarnkrok
If we need to be more offensive then swap Robertson for Dewar then move Knies up to the third line.
In the summer we can dump Kampf and Jarnkrok to clear another $4.5M in cap space, put Dewar as the 4C and Gregor/Reaves as the 4RW. That would give us $25M to spend on D, Goalie and resigning Bert+Domi.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Sun. at 8:25 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
I gotta say I find it hilarious when we do AGMs and other fan bases say that Robertson isn't worth anywhere near a 2nd. Most value him around a 4th.
He is top 25 in the league in 5v5 goals per 60 and he's still only 22. It feels like he's been around forever cause he played some games at 18 but its just absurd that he's around the same age as guys like Reichel (less than a year older) who has scored at a 5 times worse pace but is still see by many fans as guaranteed top 6 guy for Chicago moving forward.
Just crazy how talented he is, very overlooked because he's behind guys who are just world beaters in the Leafs top 9.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Fri. at 3:03 p.m.
Thread:
Playoff lines
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>jaok3</b></div><div>Just because Domi has a good game doesn't bump Marner off the topline when he comes back.</div></div>
It's not about Domi, its about spreading the talent throughout the lineup. If Matthews has chemistry with Domi + Bert then it makes the Leafs 10x stronger to have Nylander/Tavares/Marner as a potential second line or to be able to drop one of those guys to the third line. Suddenly the matchup game becomes nearly impossible especially for a team like Boston who is weak upfront.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Mar. 22 at 12:07 a.m.
Thread:
Playoff lines
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>WN88</b></div><div>Personally, I'm not a fan of Nylander and Marner being on the same line. Both guys need the puck on their stick, especially Nylander. I think switching Willy and Bobby could be a good idea.</div></div>
Yea I see that. Kampf shouldn't be the center tho. Maybe with Holmberg and Knies that would work.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Mar. 20 at 9:17 p.m.
Thread:
Bad culture
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Shaun80</b></div><div>Lots of players don't want to go to California. Highest taxes in the league I believe.</div></div>
Canada is higher.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Mar. 18 at 10:41 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Juice</b></div><div>Ironically...Babcock's issues...from what I remember our complaints mostly being...was that he wasn't playing Matthews/Marner enough (he always deferred to the high-effort grinders)....now we're complaining that Keefe's only answer seems to be turning to those players ...basically we just like complaining whenever we don't win and we all make up solutions to problems that may not have anything to do with it</div></div>
Babcocks issues were off ice. On ice he was a great coach. Matthews had issues with his ice time. I didn't I don't think many fans did. Dubas made it a bit of an issue but it shouldn't have been.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Mar. 18 at 10:38 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Leafsfan98</b></div><div>You have 9 guys in the analytics department... Tell one or more of them to watch the game analytically and help Keefe via analytics, it's simple
Guess who's the special teams coach and is taking the flack for the lack of adjustments? Boucher
I think having multiple lines being all lefties hurts as well
In the top 9, you have: Matthews (Lefty), Nylander (Righty), Bert (Lefty), JT (Lefty), Domi (Lefty), Knies (Lefty), Holmberg (Lefty), Robertson (Lefty) and McMann (Lefty) filling when needed
8 lefties to 1 righty is an issue and why Jarnkrok playing with Matthews and Bert worked so well with the other lines...</div></div>
Not fair to judge Boucher.
One of the first things Boucher said in training camp was that he wanted to run two units and play a low PP. Keefe publically contradicted both of these and the Leafs are currently doing neither.
Look at Carbery he's playing a completely different system in Washington and it's working incredibly.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Mar. 18 at 10:50 a.m.
Thread:
New Blue Line
This blue line is horrible.
Keep Benoit and sign DeMelo/Roy and Desharnais team would be much better and cheaper.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Mar. 18 at 10:32 a.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Juice</b></div><div>While I don't hate on Keefe to the same extent as some...I definitely agree with the lack of adjusting.
On the one hand...I do feel you need to give certain combos 3 or so games to see if they work. I find whenever he does try something new...it's for 1 game or 1 period....but that's what the first half of the season should be for.
As for the Power Play...again...it's an adjustment thing. Way too simplistic a reaction by some here to say it's simply getting cold...need to get Matthews the puck...guy just need to step up, etc...our PP was absolute fire last month...and teams scout that, prep for it, and scheme up ways to take away the same looks that we had been getting.
Marner being out definitely hurts because he facilitates so well....but there needs to be adjustments....when you see the other coach is taking away what used to be your Plan A....don't keep relying on Plan A...for me, I see Rielly and Nylander looking to tee Matthews up but either the passing lane to him is clogged up or he's forced to receive the pass in a spot where he can't get a good shot off...so move guys around...do something different...then go back to Plan A or Plan C when more adjustments come your way.</div></div>
I don't hate Keefe.
From listening to Kyper and Bourne, (Bourne worked on Keefe's staff in the Marlies) it seems that Keefe is not a special teams guy and isn't great at managing personalities.
To me those are two key things that this team needs.
I also think that people forget that the only GM Keefe has ever worked under for more than a season is Dubas (in the OHL, AHL or NHL).
A hallmark of Dubas teams is a focus on offense and lack of defense. That's just how he believed teams should be built. So Keefe has never had to build a defensively solid team cause especially in the OHL and AHL if you have the best offensive players you can win games. The skill gap is bigger so that strategy works.
I think Keefe could leave, go to a Pittsburgh in a few years and do well with a young core where the rookies respect him as a veteran coach, where he can work with Dubas to get D who are solid in their end but can play Keefe's possession based quick transition system.
I just don't think that these players who are already bigger than the coach have anything left to gain from working with him.
Boucher is there and can see out the season. After that I'd look to bring in Berube or some hard nosed coach who might not last long (those guys tend to lose the room after a few years) but can see out the rest of the Matthew contract and are confident enough in their abilities that we could bring in Boudreau as an assistant to help the special teams without him feeling like his replacement is looking over him.
Just my $0.02.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Mar. 17 at 10:12 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CameronSquires</b></div><div>Who do we replace him with?</div></div>
If you fired him today then Guy Boucher as an interim till the summer.
You can throw any stats you want to justify his decisions but you cannot deny he has been out coached in every single playoff series he's been in. The fact that the "issues" we bring up are always special teams, defensive structure, transition these are systems that are implemented by the coach. Florida and Boston have significantly worse rosters on paper but they have systems that work. Toronto doesn't and never has under Keefe.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Mar. 17 at 5:55 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
As long as Keefe is coach this team is playing with a hand tied behind their back.
FIRE KEEFE!
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Mar. 17 at 12:08 a.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Kampf and the boyz cant be out 24/7
Matthews has been good defensively, Nylander PK's and McMann was having a good game
Again he didnt cost us ****
What cost us was special teams thats it
PP in OT and they couldnt score
3 before that one same problem. Again not him but the players this loss is all on them as they once again going quiet at the wrong time</div></div>
It's a 6-4 and Keefe didn't put out any players who should be relied on in that scenario. Hell I'd rather Gregor out there over Nylander. Go watch that goal, Nylander tries to block the shot by kicking it at.
There is a reason every team has defensive players to see out a game. If Keefe doesn't understand that and wants to play the big guys 30mins a night in every situation then he can F off back to juniors where that strategy works.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Mar. 16 at 11:59 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>That wont solve a thing
It was 1st in the league last month, going down to 4.5% is not cause of Keefe its the players
This has been a problem before Keefe became Leafs HC. As every time when we got close to playoffs special teams cooled down. Multiple PP/PK coaches, personnel, etc later nothings changed and its concerning
Players need to smarten up and find their Feb form or we aint going anywhere</div></div>
The fact that the idiot is paying Nylander, McMann and Matthews when we are up by 1/2 goals in the last few minutes is absurd.
He cost us this game.
He has been out coached every playoff round. He is not an NHL quality coach.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Mar. 16 at 11:35 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>To really show the problem rn with TOR
In February Leafs PP = 50% and PK was at 78.6%
Since then in March PP = 4.5% and their PK aint bailing them out either 70.8%
And when u factor this team barely draws PP's and is once again repeating the norm its very concerning</div></div>
Solution is simple.
FIRE KEEFE!!
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Mar. 16 at 10:45 p.m.
Thread:
50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
Fire Keefe.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Mar. 15 at 3:00 p.m.
Thread:
Studs and Duds
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>fil97</b></div><div>lol no from pit</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>jfkst1</b></div><div>This deal isn't going to help them in the next season. The hole Karlsson leaves will be massive on an already mediocre blue line. He isn't worth his cap hit, but he is still a good RD and probably the best dman on the team. They won't improve the team in the short term by trading him. It would be more about getting Karlsson somewhere competitive and clearing cap space on a rebuilding team.</div></div>
I agree but I think this is a half way measure.
People always forget how young Leafs prospects are because they are so heavily covered.
Robertson is 22, Lili is 24.
Robertson is 5 months older than the best ranked prospect of the three Pit got in the Bunting deal.
Robertson has 19 points in 41 games averaging 11:22/ night. With some real ice time he should be a lock as a 50/60 points player.
Lili's a #2RD when he's on his game. Problem is he is super streaky. Maybe he is able to find his game in a lower pressure environment.
Kampf/Jarnkrok are role players that Dubas loves who fill holes in the penguins bottom 6 (Carter leaving).
I'm not saying this trade makes them a playoff team or that it maximizes their futures. Just that it gives them 4 players who will be in their lineup next year at reasonable cap hits, two of whom will likely also be in the lineup when the next core is playing in 4-6 years from now and those two will be in their prime at that time.
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