Apr 24, 2017
2nd Favourite Team
Vegas Golden Knights
Posts per Day
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>palhal</b></div><div>Actually it might be pretty fair trade considering on ice value, needs, and term of players. But as exo2769 noted above...another 3.1m Nylander's cap hit over Shaw, makes more cap issues next season.</div></div>
No doubt, but keep in mind Crow isn't going to be back and Delia will take his spot as Lehner's backup. Maatta, Murphy and or De Haan get traded and Gus isn't going to get re-signed. With Boqvist, Mitchell, Beaudin, Gilbert, Holm, etc. the Hawks are very deep with defensive prospects. We can count on at least 2 making the team next year. Another scenario is Saad may get moved. All in all, the Hawks could make it work with the cap.
That said, I'm spitballing here and looking at team needs. I don't love losing Shaw as he brings energy to the ice every game, but as much as I hate to admit it, the Hawks have Caggs who plays a very similar role. Gus is moveable given the depth of ELC's Hawks have on defense that can fill Gus's role, specifically Boqvist. The Hawks are definitely in need of a top 6 winger and I think the exponential factor of having both Nylanders playing together could bring the best out of both of them thus solving 2 out of 4 top 6 winger positions. I think for Toronto, obviously D is a need and believe Gus's game fits their style of play to a 'T'. Shaw would also bring a energy pest dynamic Toronto lost with Kadri, not to mention he grew up a Leafs fan.
I think the trade works for both teams needs. It's a big risk for Chicago to take on Nylander's contract though. If Nylander is only putting up 45 to 50 points a game and scoring 20 goals that would be bad of course which is why there is risk, but playing with his Brother and centered by a big bodied net front guy like Dach, could allow both Nylanders to open up the ice together and reach their potential.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>F50marco</b></div><div>No need for the extra garbage. Peca, Weise, Smith. etc just muddies the trade value.
Gus for a 2020 2nd, 2021 2nd or prospect is about right I would think but that is contingent on him playing well this year up until the above trade is made. The 2nd may be contingent on him resigning also. If not a 3rd.
And as for the people clamoring about the "64 points in 85 games" bla bla. Look he's a great "out of nowhere" story but most times when a team has a player like that they don't get rid of him. There is a reason Chicago fans were already trading him as soon as the numbers sky rocketed up with his trade value. He will command 6M+ in UFA and won't be worth it and they know it. Its not like the Hawks couldn't use a quality LHD themselves, yet they choose to keep Maatta, Keith and DeHaan over Gus. Ask yourself why? Other than Beaudin, most of their quality d prospects are on the right side so keeping one quality lefty would make sense. Especially over Maatta and DeHaan and with Keith looking like he's going off the deep end this year, might be wise to keep Gus to be honest.
IMO I'm down for trading for Gus, even paying a slight premium to get him if he shows he is the real deal this year but everything about him is screaming buyer beware from the Chicago fans which is confusing the heck out of most people.
If he is what you say is, you should be trying to keep him, not trade him. He's young and hes your best player at his position.</div></div>
All good points but would note, Gus plays the right side for the Hawks exclusively and did last year as well prior to he acquisitions of Maatta and De Haan. As such, Boqvist is going to be ready and coming up on the right side along with Ian Mitchell and possibly Beaudin. With 3 ELC's on D being more then likely ready, re-signing Gus doesn't make much sense cap wise. In fact, the Hawks will likely not only not re-sign Gus but get rid of another defender like Murphy or Maatta. This is why the Hawks fans are trading Gus on here a lot.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>HatterTParty</b></div><div>Oh believe me, I’m not arguing the merits of the nine game trial. What I am arguing is that I don’t exactly know how dach fits into the lineup, especially with the third line looking amazing and the top six trying to find chemistry. I know dach is supposedly a center, but I think being a wing is what he’s gonna see most in these games. I understand, skill wise, dach is probably better than kampf, but that third line is lights out with chemistry. Colliton, please do not break that line up!
Dach looked very invisible tonight and like he was behind on pace. Hopefully, he picks it up as he goes along. But as I said a while back, I’m trying to reserve my expectations so I’m disappointed if/when he busts.</div></div>
Honestly, not concerned with the outcome of Dach this season if he works it’s a nice surprise but doubt anyone including the Hawks are betting on that; as mentioned above that’s usually not the purpose of the 9 games and rarely do 18 year olds work out during that period. That said, Turcotte looks great so far at Wisconsin. Still wish we took him.
What I’m more concerned with is finding wingers that can score on the 1st line. Nylander looked good this game and as one of his biggest critics, happy to give credit and good to see. That said, Sikura has 3 goals and an assist in 5 games in the AHL. I think it’s safe to say we need to start looking for a trade partner for Perlini. Not fair to him to waste away in the pressbox and the Hawks have 2 decent options with Nylander and Sikura being brought up if Nylander slumps or gets injured.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BCAPP</b></div><div>I think you're overstating Kane a tad to say he is a definite top 3 forward. I don't think anyone would argue McDavid was ahead of him las year, nor Kucherov. I gotta think most would put McKinnon ahead.
Personally I'd still put Crosby (I know less offense but more impact on the rest of the game) and Bergeron (the impact he has defensively for a forward is unparalleled in this generation). He may be next though. So 6th?</div></div>
I don't know about Kuch being definitely ahead of Kane. Kuch had much better line around him then Kane. Can Kuch play on a line with Toews and a rotating cast member on the LW, mostly Caggs, and put up those numbers? I think that's a big question mark. Put another way, Kane created much of Toews's resurgence last year (1st time they played together in years) much moreso then Toews helped Kane. McDavid is hands down the #1, but after that, one can make a case for Kane. Needless to say, he's easily in the top 5 forwards and top 3 wingers in the game, anyone that would argue that doesn't understand the roles of a winger versus center. He's also easily one of the most dynamic players in the game. The analysts agreed why anyone could easily have awarded the Hart trophy to Kane...simply because he didn't play with Point or Stamkos.
Regarding Crosby, I don't disagree that his game can not be valued purely on points nor should it. Bergeon also. However for wingers, its much easier to value their play on goals and points. Therein lies the debate. I then look at who changes the game single handidly the most for their respective teams which is why McDavid is #1 without question. Kane single handidly won a lot of games for the Hawks especially last year...very few players can alone change the outcome of a game for a team. There are really no stats other then an eye test to see that and anyone who watched Kane last year wouldn't argue for a minute they did that.
For that reason, Kane has more value then Kapo which is why the inclusion of Krieder as a rental is a balanced trade. Now whether that is a fit for the NYR is open for debate IMO but also IMO anyone who would think Kaapo has more value 1:1 for then Kane is a silly argument given Kane's performance last year and Kaapo being an unknown entity.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Caniac2000</b></div><div>*Could*, Kakko is almost sure fire to have the next 12 years of his career at an elite level, why move him for Kane?</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Caniac2000</b></div><div>pOiNtS... there's more to hockey than just points. Sid was alround the best player in the league last year by some margin, his RAPM literally shames anyone else in the league, and McDavid was number 2 by almost the same margin. Kuch I'm only counting as number 3 because it might get you to shut up, but realistically last year Couturier was better, MacKinnon, Point all were. 110 points is nice production, but there's a lot more than that to this game. Defensively he was horrific (when I say horrific, I mean for his standards at an elite level, don't get that wrong) He's imo, not a top 10 player in the league anymore. He's slowing down way too much. Oh and 110 points is a lot easier with a 40 goal scorer on the other wing</div></div>
I can't help to think you're just trolling now because the ignorance in your comments is overwhelming. Kane played more with Toews and Caggs/Perlini/Saad then he did with Debrincat...he only played with Cat when he was double-shifted for the most part.
Kane is a game changer, he takes over games and makes everyone on the ice with him a much better player. Very few players in the league can do that. I'd argue nobody in the league can handle a puck as well as Kane either, likely the most elusive player in the league.
To say he's not a top 10 guy is just ignorance or trolling on your part.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Caniac2000</b></div><div>Kane is slowing down, he had a resurgent year in a year where everyone was scoring more. Kane wasn't a top 3 player last year, be real man. Top 5 maybe, but Sid McDavid and Kuch were all better. Kakko has the upside to get there, there is literally 0 reason or sense to move him. NYR aren't gunning for the cup now. They're aiming down the road.
Kap is a speedy middle 6er with 20-40 upside, for a defenceman who struggles in his own end, is on a 1 year deal and adds to Muzzin Barrie Dermott Ceci Harpur Schmaltz and a load of others who would need to be resigned? That makes very little sense for Toronto.
Kreider with an extension is worth a 1st and a B prospect...</div></div>
Wrong...you're ignorant not to realize Kane is a top 3 forward. #3 in points, #5 in goals, #6 in assists. No other player in the league ranked collectively that high in all categories. For comparison, Kuch was #11 in goals, McDavid #10 in goals, Crosby #24 in goals and Crosby #7...but you think Crosby was better? LMAO
Sure KK has a lot of upside, but to think he's going to be as good as Kane is a fool's errand. KK or Hughes weren't nearly as hyped as Kane in his draft year. Very few players are, McDavid being another one.
Toronto's right side is hurting and offers very little offensive upside. Gus would definitely add to the type of game Toronto plays. Perlini has upside for sure, he's just not a fit for the Hawks after getting Nylander as another project.
No extension was included in the Kreider trade hence why I conservatively traded him for a 2nd rounder.