NR1203

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Jan 6, 2017

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Arizona Coyotes

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Forum: Armchair-GM13 minutes ago

Thread: Kyle Dubas needs to be fired

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Boomer125</b></div><div>Have we all forgotten Kadri had a M-NTC to deal with, I highly doubt Barrie was top of the list, Kadri had no desire to leave TO his childish antics that caused him to be suspended in back to back seasons at their most critical points sealed his fate, I'm also going to assume Kadri and his agent are on the smarter side of things and handed in a no trade list of Minnesota (Dumba) Chicago (Murphy) Columbus (Savard) Anaheim (Manson) Calgary (Brodie) that's 5 right there.....and I'm struggling to name another 5 RHD I'd take over Barrie that fit the cap allowance while also aquiring his replacement</div></div>

You're absolutely right. Obviously Dubas was in a tough spot and the trade seemed good at the time but hindsight is 20/20.

Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago

Thread: screwing around

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>csick</b></div><div>If Ottawa get 1 and 4. I’m taking Laf and Raymond. I’m really really high on Raymond.</div></div>

At 4 Raymond is the guy. I think the top 4 should be set in stone (Laf, Byfield, German dude and Raymond) but after that it's a bit more iffy.

Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago

Thread: Kyle Dubas needs to be fired

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood</b></div><div>The actual reality is RHD are massively overvalued on this site. What hand a player shoots isn't nearly as important as Babs made it out to be. Having good defenceman is important. Overpaying because a guy shoots right is silly. Manson isn't even that good, he hasn't been for 2 years. Pesce is good but he's not elite, not even close. He's benefitted from playing with a true elite player in Slavin. I agree that Pesce for Kapanen isn't very even but to think Pesce is worth Nylander is hilarious. He's not even close to the same level of Nylander.</div></div>

It's not just something Babs made it out to be. A couple years ago, there was an article in the Hockey News that explained that RHD's get paid more since there are less of them. They have more worth than lefties since there are less of them. And in any case, Pesce has insane shot suppression numbers and playing on a pair with Rielly wouldn't be much of a difference from Slavin

Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago

Thread: Kyle Dubas needs to be fired

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Saskleaf</b></div><div>Hainsey was very good. But yes, When you take a look at contracts, Ceci is better. However, Brown was in that trade too, So in the end it was fair, not a steal for toronto.</div></div>

The Leafs have been able to easily replicate Brown's scoring for a cheaper price (Engvall, Mikheyev, Spezza) and Brown has only 40-something points on a top-line role (which is ok but not exactly good). I'd argue that it was a steal.

Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago

Thread: Kyle Dubas needs to be fired

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Saskleaf</b></div><div>He was at his highest value then. That is part of why it was a big mistake.</div></div>

How is that his highest value? He already smashed his career high for goals and was 2 points away from surpassing his career high in points... and compared to what lots of other players (Anders Lee, Kevin Hayes come to mind) got he has a decent contract.

Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago

Thread: Kyle Dubas needs to be fired

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LeafsFanForSomeReason</b></div><div>Barrie under Keefe has almost the same point pace as Kadri.</div></div>

Yeah. But first impressions matter and Babcock set him up in the worst possible way. Now he's much better but lots of fans like this thread starter or baghead (idk if you use twitter) just want to rip into Dubas because they don't like him for some reason.

Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago

Thread: Kyle Dubas needs to be fired

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>KakkoForMauriceRichardAward</b></div><div>The « re » part of the rebuild was done but the « build » part of it wasn’t even close to being close to being done.

They needed to improve the D, Dubas did nothing for that in 2018</div></div>

That's ridiculous. Dubas is the reason they got Muzzin, he's the reason Holl was given an opportunity and has proven himself. He's the reason they have a future top-4 Dman in Sandin (who was drafted in 2018 FWIW) And I can't think of a single way in which adding JT to a team that's made the playoffs in the last 2 seasons somehow hurts the team. 2018 was his 1st offseason and we can't start condemning a guy after he's been on the job 3 months. Maybe the dmen on the FA market didn't make sense for the team. Maybe the trade demands were too high.

Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago

Thread: Kyle Dubas needs to be fired

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>swinny</b></div><div>Think that is easy to say in hindsight, because at the time of that deal, all of us were rather excited about a PP with Reilly and Barrie.

Further, the blueline was decimated with injuries. Now, on one hand that cannot be blamed on Dubas. On the other, it was clear the organization lacked NHL ready depth at the position.

Tale of this tape for me is what he does to fix the depth issue - which signing Lehtonen is a step in that direction.</div></div>

Barrie's usage was the problem. Trust me, if he had been used properly at the start of the season under Babcock and he had 40-50 points by now no one would be complaining.

Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago

Thread: Kyle Dubas needs to be fired

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Saskleaf</b></div><div>Well, I will admit Dubas has been excellent at the draft. But trading Kadri was not a good idea, neccisalelly. Kadri was a very good part of the leafs. The only star who actually played with a bit of an edge.</div></div>

But they couldn't afford that. When you have Matthews and Tavares, you want to play them each 19 minutes a night at least. That leaves 22 minutes for Kadri and a 4th line, and take off some of that for PP/PK situations. It wasn't worth paying 4.5 million for that. And besides if Dubas had played his cards better he could have gotten a top-4 Dman who played with an edge which would have been an upgrade on Kadri for sure. He didn't and that's on him

Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago

Thread: screwing around

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>csick</b></div><div>Do u think Detroit is high on Raymond? I’d love to get him and if they aren’t then there’s a super high chance he’s available to Ottawa</div></div>

Well if they choose not to trade down the Sens could simply pull a shocker and draft him at 3. Stuzle would be the other option there. I think trading down makes more sense because it still gives them a top prospect but also some capital which they use to get their #1 centre (who would be #2 long-term as Byfield develops)

Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago

Thread: screwing around

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NixJets</b></div><div>Markstrom isn’t leaving VAN and if he does they’re still gonna try until July 1st</div></div>

Well first of all, if he tells them that he wants to return, they could do this trade, he could simply play Ottawa for a week and then come back. Also, if this trade is done on draft night, they would still be allowed to talk to him up until July 1 because of the negotiating window. The only difference is that Ottawa would have a chance to close a deal before then.[

Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago

Thread: screwing around

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>DiehardRedWingsFan58</b></div><div>No guarantee's that Jamie Drysdale falls to #5 overall. Detroit is probably picking at number 4 and i can definitely see Yzerman taking one of Drysdale, Raymond/Rossi with that pick.</div></div>

I think Raymond is better than Drysdale. Drysdale was ranked #7 by hockeyprospect.com and #5 by eliteprospects. I don't think Detroit would reach on him because Detroit already has Seider, Hronek, Cholowski so I feel like Raymond would be a better fit. You could be right though.

Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago

Thread: Advanced Stats Overrated and Under rated defensemen

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Caniac2000</b></div><div>At the time, Marner wasn't held in the same prestige he is now. He had a little more value than Nylander, which I thought was fair. Since then, he has exploded and signed a contract that is very unflattering, so I doubt anyone trades for him.</div></div>

Ok so my question is whether Nylander is worth Pesce or not?

Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago

Thread: Kyle Dubas needs to be fired

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Saskleaf</b></div><div>Cant Linholm and Folwer both play RD? And not a chance Dubas, or any gm, trades Willy for Pesce, thats just dumb.</div></div>

<a href="/users/Caniac2000" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@Caniac2000</a> please tell him

Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago

Thread: Kyle Dubas needs to be fired

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Saskleaf</b></div><div>Kapanen for Manson is very fair. Kapanen for Pesce would included LILI, but absolutely no way it included Nylander.</div></div>

Nah you're overvaluing Kapenen and undervaluing Pesce. Pesce is an elite defensive guy and 100% is worth nylander. Manson would cost more than Kapanen because middle-6 wingers are worth far less than RHD's and in any case, Manson isn't that great. He's a big body, sure, but he can't handle the puck very well and his defense is questionable.

Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago

Thread: Kyle Dubas needs to be fired

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>KakkoForMauriceRichardAward</b></div><div>« The big 4 are paid fairly »

Ok is that why no other team in the NHL pais its top 4 more than 35 million bucks? No one else does that because every other GM understands that it’s a losing strategy

« Anyone who thinks Dubas should be fired is either a troll who just hates the Leafs«

Great, let’s hide behind the « you rightly point out many issues within the team that can’t really be properly fixed because of the big 4 so I’ll just call you a hater ». That’s a nonsense argument that only relies on emotion

« Have patience and don't listen to the idiots on here going off about stuff that isn't real»

Except signing JT forced them to compete for the SC when they weren’t ready for that, far from that, it rushed the rebuild and they have bad consequences ever since.</div></div>

How did signing JT rush the rebuild? They had made the playoffs in each of the 2 years before they got him. They weren't rebuilding anymore, they were working their way up to contention.

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Saskleaf</b></div><div>Wow chill bud. I still think he should be fired yes, he still has time to win a cup, but at the rate he s going, It better to get a new gm with a different philosophy</div></div>

He has had the job for 2 years, which is never enough to judge a GM's record unless he really screws up hard (like Fenton in Minnesota). And, he was left in a tough spot (having to sign young stars who didn't like the coach they were playing for) and had some deadweight contracts (Marleau, Martin and Zaitsev) that Lou left him with.

Since then, he's signed JT, built a great top-9 forward core, and he has proven himself to be an excellent drafter (Sandin, Robertson, Abruzesse) and talent evaluator (he signed this year's OHL dman of the year after Arizona didn't offer him a contract). The Nylander contract has turned out just fine and his depth signings have been great (Spezza, Ennis come to mind). They have Liljegren and Sandin coming up which should hopefully stabilize the defense. His other trades (aside from Kadri) have been good, Muzzin was a good add and getting out of Zaitsev's contract is a win.

Trading Kadri was a good idea since 4.5 million for a 3C playing 13-14 mins a night wasn't going to work. Barrie wasn't the right guy. Someone more defensively responsible would have been nice. Matthews and Marner were overpaid (Matthews got too much money relative to the term and Marner was overpaid period) but I'd much rather overpay a star by 2 million than a depth guy.

No GM has a perfect record. But the Leafs have to play to their strengths, which is that they have great skill and are built to move the puck and score. If a new GM comes in, implements a philosophy of playing "tough" and "gritty", then it's automatically lowering the ceiling of the team by making the stars do things they can't do. For this team, Dubas is the right guy because his vision for hockey lines up with the team he has on the ice. He shouldn't be fired.

Forum: Armchair-GM12 hours ago

Thread: Advanced Stats Overrated and Under rated defensemen

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Caniac2000</b></div><div>There's a case to be made Pesce is a top 10 RD man league-wide.... he's not overrated, I actually think he's still SO underrated</div></div>

I'm not saying he isn't good and if I were the Leafs I'd trade Nylander for him without thinking twice. But lots of canes fans on here were saying he is worth Marner (back when everyone was talking abt Pesce to the Leafs) which simply isn't true

Forum: Armchair-GMMon at 8:15 am

Thread: AUSTON MATTHEWS TO ARIZONA

How about.... NO

Forum: Armchair-GMMon at 8:15 am

Thread: Advanced Stats Overrated and Under rated defensemen

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Caniac2000</b></div><div>Pesce isn't overrated, he's just that good. Everyone else I agree with, I don't think Muzzin is underrated and Barrie is VERY overrated, but I agree with the rest</div></div>

Nah I think Pesce has been talked up so much over the last couple years to the point where he is a bit overrated. But yeah don't understand how Barrie got on the left side

Forum: Armchair-GMMon at 8:13 am

Thread: Best Contract on each team - no ELC

I don't think Nylander is the best, Rielly and Hyman's contracts are better

Forum: Armchair-GMFri at 10:27 am

Thread: Crazy idea for the draft in June if it happens

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Jameshgfgn</b></div><div>They would still have the 14th and 15th pick in that scenario. You also don’t know if the other team would have picked the player you want. Also why can’t you growth of the game is always more important that a single teams needs</div></div>

But this doesn't really grow the game as much as it is a TV gimmick. This would affect all the teams in the league.

Forum: Armchair-GMFri at 10:22 am

Thread: Crazy idea for the draft in June if it happens

Forum: Armchair-GMFri at 10:12 am

Thread: Stars Add Hall DeMelo Fast Larsson

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Terry_AkiSauce</b></div><div>Except Jeff Skinner scored 40 in his contract year which matters cause Hall's never scored 40. Skinner also had 4 30+ goal seasons over 9 years while Hall only had 1 in his MVP season over 10 years. Hall also only had over 65 points TWICE in TEN seasons. Anyone who pays over $8M is going to regret it big time.</div></div>

I mean he may not be worth is but as a UFA, and with his name recognition, it's hard to see how he won't make more than 9 million.

Forum: Armchair-GMFri at 10:08 am

Thread: All Time Roster

Forum: Armchair-GMMay 15 at 12:21

Thread: Plz dont click this

Montour is a 3rd pairing quality defenceman. I used to like him too but he is overrated. And that trade is a bit yikes because after the top 5 I don't think there's anyone out there worth Marner (and retaining salary too yeesh)

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