Jun. 15, 2020
2nd Favourite Team
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<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>wabit</b></div><div>He can not sign an 8 year deal anywhere except MN.
You brought up the OS compensation and linked the calculator. The price when you put those numbers in is 4 1sts.</div></div>
He can sign an 8-year extension with any team that holds his RFA rights. Which will exist for at least another year. Until his age 27 offseason. Whomever he's traded to will have that option to do so if they so desire, for at least all of next season. After which he'll become an UFA, and will be eligible to only sign an 8-year extension with his current team.
The 7-year max signing vs an 8-year extension thing only counts if he's an UFA signing with a new team during Free Agency. So long as he's still an RFA, even with arbitration rights, he is still eligible to sign an 8-year extension provided said team owns them. Or if age 27 or older with whichever team he currently plays for.
As for the offersheet thing. I only linked it because it shows the compensation packages for the various AAV ranges. That's all. I never used it.
Strictly speaking, a AAV compensation package for a $7.8M offersheet is a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd. Which is technically what the poster is going off of. Not so much the term. If a offersheet is longer than 5 years, then yes, it goes up. But if we're going by just the AAV, then this offer is more than what the compensation is.
That was my point more or less. But, I'm not going to argue about term length though.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Knuckl3s</b></div><div>Fiala was alone on his line because of Boldy's struggles? I thought Fiala was capable of driving his own line, sounds there like you're suggesting somewhat the contrary
I never said I definitively buy into the Fiala toxicity rumors, but I admit I'm surprised how frequently they've come up, but that's not going to stop me from taking it with a grain of salt. It's good to hear that other Wild fans are on the same page as you though</div></div>
I mean the guy has been on a 70 point pace on his own for the last 3 years, without help from his linemates. That's a player that's fully capable of driving a line, especially when said player has been in the top 5 for possession stats during that same timespan.
Like I said, it felt more like a player who had gone cold and was trying to do too much because of it. Doesn't mean he's not capable or rather I should say incapable of it as your trying to imply.
I merely stated that Boldy struggling in his first playoffs meant that Fiala had no one to fall back on when he himself had gone cold. Which, in turn, more than likely made Fiala feel like he had to do it all himself. So he pressed, and again, meant he tried to do too much.
The two things are contributing factors as to why, but are not mutually exclusive with one another. They're still separate factors. And one does not mean the other is incapable.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Knuckl3s</b></div><div>You're the first Wild fan who has come out and denied it, I'll wait for some more to follow suit. That said, I still hope you're right
Not saying he doesn't still have good value, but where the heck was he during the playoffs?</div></div>
I mean, it's not the first time I've done it and certainly won't be the last. But I have had to reply to these off-base rumors to other fanbases at least 5 times over the last month alone.
Whenever I do, they tend to get heavily liked by my fellow Wild fans here. That isn't to be taken as a statement of fact. Just as an acknowledgement that I certainly am not alone in my opinion or thought process on this one. Take that for what you will.
And you still haven't said where you heard it/read it, because until you do, I'll continue to remain skeptical about it.
As for the playoffs. 99% of the roster didn't show up for the playoffs, that isn't worth singling out Fiala for that. He was our most noticeable forward for the last two years in the playoffs, before this one. Against the Canucks in the 2020 play-in round and against Vegas last year. He's not always producing but he's noticeable.
He was our only real threat against Vancouver. Was our best forward on the ice against Vegas, but wasn't rewarded for his efforts. As Kaprizov was triple teamed throughout the series with Vegas.
This year, he looked like a guy who was trying to do to much, and had gone cold at the same time. It didn't help that Boldy struggled given it was his first taste of playoff hockey, which kinda meant that Fiala was alone for the most part on that line again. Then again he still managed 3 points in 6 games, all assists, two of which in spectacular fashion as they were primary assists on Kaprizov's PP goals in game 3.
Does Fiala deserve some criticism for not stepping up in this years playoffs? Absolutely. But let's not pretend there aren't some mitigating factors at play here too.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Dutchies</b></div><div>I disagree. MIN does this in a heartbeat. You give up anything for a future Lidstrom, esp if they aren't asking for Boldy and Rossi.</div></div>
It's the value disparity and the pieces involved specifically that makes Minnesota turn it down. Not the fact it's Seider, who I agree is phenomenal and would love to get my hands on... but I recognize it would never happen anyway. But that's the point.
As much as I like Seider, his value is concurrently commensurate to Fiala's. They're basically a wash. Right now, specifically. Probably not in the future, or maybe even a year from now. But for now, it is. If we were to sit here and look at what Seider's value would be from a hypothetical standpoint if he were available, which again, he isn't.
So how is Detroit walking away with both Dumba and a high 2nd (40th ova) for Walman and a 4th? That is decidedly tilted in their favor, not Minnesota's. When Dumba carries the far, far, greater value between the two players and by strict pick value alone. Explain that to me? Because the Wild are losing that part of the trade, hands down... easily.
Seider is great, really, but how in hell is giving up a PPG 80+ point winger, a top 4 defenseman, and a 2nd for basically 1 player... even if it's Seider... worth it when the rest is simply quantity filler and not quality?
Furthermore, Walman does nothing for us when we already have Middleton to resign, who's better, and are fully stocked at LD already. Overflowing in point of fact. So aside from Seider, what exactly are we gaining from this?
Because it's seems like we're giving up far more than we gained. Cause all I see is the Wild giving up 3 great pieces and gaining just one.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>mokumboi</b></div><div>I have no clue what you're on about with this spreadsheet stuff. Kerfoot is the better player. He's the player with more value. He's younger. And Foligno is coming off a total outlier career year. And a weak playoff showing, to boot. And on top of all that, the Wild's weakness up the middle was just exposed.
They take that deal and run with it.</div></div>
Strange how Foligno was on a <em>career year</em> two seasons ago, then on another <em>career year</em> last year, and finally on one again <em>this</em> year. Furthermore, he's been amongst the best defensive forwards by analytics during that same timespan. This isn't a fluke. Foligno is better than Kerfoot, period.
At what point do people maybe start to understand that he's better then they give him credit for. And what's this about a weak playoffs? The man took a cheap ass knee on knee from Macdermid in the final regular season game against the Avs and <em>still</em> played through it for six more playoff games while playing at something like 60% health, and also took Kyrou to the cleaners on a big open ice hit which led to a scoring chance the other way in game three.
Aside from Kaprizov, The GREEF line was our best line of the series. It took Berube taking the ROR line off Kaprizov, which was ineffective anyway, and sticking them on the GREEF line to get the series back under control and in your favor. They stayed on them the entire rest of the series.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Xspyrit</b></div><div>Great lineup
Only thing here :
- Hope they just bury Del Zotto and Zaitsev in the AHL instead of paying assets to dump them. We have well enough cap space
- Would much much rather just buy out (cheap) Colin White rather than take a pure cap dump in Armia.
- Value for Fiala is fair, have to give to get. Need to have an extension in place (i.e. he wants to be part of the solution in Ottawa)
Big boom or bust prospect. He had a similar curve as Roopie Hintz last season. Doesn't mean he will end up as good but look what his coach said last year :
Troy Mann comments when he first got Jarventie in the AHL :
"<em>He has a high hockey IQ, tremendous shot, NHL release. He's certainly got some height to him and once he's able to fill out and get some proper off-ice conditioning in the summer and get stronger, I think he needs to work on his skating as well, he'll be a real good prospect</em>"
Ilves Head coach Jouko Myrra when he had him as a young 18 y/o :
<em>“He has one of the best shots in our team or even in the Finnish league,” he said. “We would be stupid if he doesn’t play power play.”
Roby’s size, speed, and knack for putting himself in scoring positions reminds Myrra of former Ilves player Roope Hintz, who’s coming off 19 goals in 60 games for the Dallas Stars last season.
“I hope that Roby Jarventie can challenge him after a couple of years,” laughed Myrra. “Roby has a little bit better touch than Roope Hintz.”
Myrra added: “He’s one of the most talented young Ilves players in 10 years.”</em>
Also this :
Not a bad comparison but Jarventie is 15 months younger, they had similar AHL stats</div></div>
I'm aware of that, but I tend to just use Beckman as the comparable because other Wild fans will understand what I'm referring to when I talk about Jarventie being a Boom or Bust candidate and what Jarventie's ceiling is.
A middle-six type who likely slots in on a team's 2nd or 3rd line, but has some interesting potential there to become more.
Aside from that their completely different players. But I'm not necessarily trying to relay that information right off the bat.