Nov 7, 2017
2nd Favourite Team
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<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>HatterTParty</b></div><div>Well, I will say, just in my opinion, turcotte will always work harder than dach. I’m sure dach will have a good career, but I do agree with you that he’s got the better hands. Turcotte, though, just plays a better all around game with more upside. Dach, as a two way player, may get 60 points a season at some point, maybe. However, turcotte, as a two way player, could get 80-90 a season. He’s just so tenacious. He never stops, and in all honestly, this brings up a thing i dislike about bigger players. Players like turcotte who have always been on the smaller side are always taught to work harder and use their body to the best of their abilities and always be faster. Bigger players, on the other hand, are used to just being a more dominate presence on the ice at younger ages. As they get older, the faster players start to catch up and eventually eclipse them. Point is, I can’t fathom a scenario where dach is better than turcotte. Turcotte just doesn’t let himself stop and is driven by pure determination. Dach still looks too lazy to me in all honesty.
However, you did bring up an interesting thought. You said maybe we could get a 1C in this upcoming draft. Now that is certainly a possibility. However, here’s the problem with that scenario. If you choose a 1C, which other center do you trade? Do you trade toews? Probably not, he’s never waive a no trade and he’s the captain. How about dach? At this point, people could still give a huge return for him maybe? Obviously no, I’d love to see it but he’s our future and we’re stuck with him. How about strome then? We got him back to where he should have been. Honestly, probably could happen. Ya see, strome and dach are very identical physically. Both are big, slow players who don’t like to use their bodies very much. I hate to admit that but that’s the truth. As you said, we are SLOW!! As such, we probably have the slowest center core in the league (at least one of them). Here’s the problem with trading strome though, dach has proved many times this year he doesn’t know how to play with Kane or debrincat yet. So, why would you trade strome? Dach has only thrived with the fourth line, which to me is genuinely concerning. As such, trading strome would probably only happen if the team went into a full rebuild. So, bringing it back to the original point, drafting a 1C in this upcoming draft probably raises more questions about the team than it answers.</div></div>
So the scenario envisioned brings up something my dad thought of a couple years ago when it looked as if Toews might be slowing down. A similar thing happened with the Flyers, where it looked as if Giroux was starting to slow down a little bit, they still had him take the faceoffs, but they gave him winger duties but still had him take faceoffs. As Toews is the big faceoff guy, that is something I could see them pairing him with Dach if he never gets too great at faceoffs, and then have Toews essentially take over winger duties after the faceoff
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>HatterTParty</b></div><div>Fair response, like what you had to say in this body of thought. I start by saying, of course, everything I say is purely opinion based.
Having said that, remember that I did say in my rant, Stan did seem to try to fix things getting de haan and maatta. I’ll grant you that that wording is certainly not praise, but it is acknowledgement, which at this point is all I give the guy. However, what you said in your message unfortunately doesn’t really change much of what I was getting at. I loved what you had to say, as I do all other hawk fans, but how I’m looking at this summer isn’t a case finding help. Clearly, Stan did try, this much is true. However, it’s still a case of finding the WRONG help. Don’t forget that also said that the players are also accountable for the laziness, that includes maatta and de haan. I’m not saying that getting those two wasn’t probably (and most likely) the best we could do. I also mentioned in my rant that we clearly couldn’t trade for anyone or even find a top 2 dman in the UFA market. But these two “solutions” came from teams that maximized their abilities far better than we ever could. At least under the coach we have, that’s the point I’m trying to make.
However, my anger speaks not only to Colliton and bowman in general, but also to the clear lack of communication between the two in terms of putting a team together. Stan wanted to find fixes and he only managed maatta and de haan. Crazy as it sounds to say out loud, those actually were improvements! To this day that absolutely shocks me when I see how far we’ve fallen. This isn’t the point though. The point is, bowman has seen and known this problem for 2 and a half years now. How or why he hasn’t found solutions in that time, who knows. Cap problems? Yup. Old core on **** contracts? Yup. Garbage coach that he keeps giving rope to? You bet. However, each one of these things are problems made by bowman. Mark Kelley May have made the pick, but he can’t just circumvent Stan, so that belongs on Stan as much as him.
Speaking of the pick, I hate to be this guy, but no one is ever going to completely sell me on this kid. People can judge me for that, but my opinion on that is for a number of reasons. The most important being that Dach doesn’t fix or change anything. In fact, if you can, tell me what fixes. Picking him was purely to save Bowman’s own skin because he was gonna keep him in the nhl no matter what. And by the way, it wasn’t a great choice, he needed to learn to play against guys better his own age. But that’s neither here nor there. Then there’s byram, the future Keith. Who knows if he hits that projection. What I do know is that number one dmen don’t come along in drafts often, not even projection wise. You coulda had him, and then picked a center in next years ridiculously stacked draft. Instead, you got a kid the team doesn’t really know how to develop completely cuz you’ve never had a guy of his archetype. I agree he may be good one day, and if he does more power to him.
I am glad you brought up people after him not being in the NHL, cuz I love when people do that. First thing I’ll say is this, or rather ask: why did we need the guy ready now? I’m seriously asking btw. Why now? Why couldn’t it be two years down the road? As long as it followed a process. This team is so stuck in neutral that they say **** development, we want you now. So they went with the easy pick and took dach. Now, byram to start with. Why is byram in the WHL this season? Cuz Colorado is so stacked on defense they didn’t need to rush his development. Plain and simple, and possibly the easiest answer of em all. Turcotte (whom I have watched and adore), chose to go to college. It didn’t matter if he blew everyone away at kings camp, even his father made him to college, and now he’s killing it in wisconsin. Nuff said. Don’t forget, Cale makar was offered a pro spot after his freshman year and chose to go back. A hobey baker and a sick start to a pro career later, what do you think? Smart I’d say. Cole Caufield. Undersized and in need of body maturing. No worries, college can do that, no need to rush. Now he’s killing with turcotte at Wisconsin. The list goes on and on buddy. I seriously don’t get the argument that Dach is better simply cuz he’s here still. He’s not here cuz he should be, he’s here cuz the hawks are at their lowest and they’re desperate. Byram and turcotte are probably going to set the world on fire when they get here (who knows?) because their teams understood development is a process. So no, I don’t like the dach pick, I don’t like how they’re developing him, and I don’t think he’s even close to the level the other top 5 players are. However, that is my opinion, and just an opinion. What he fixes I’ll never know, and being that he’s only effective on the fourth line, I may not understand for the rest of the season. Just my opinion, but I genuinely think doesn’t know what’s best for the hawks’ long term future. He only thinks of how to save himself short term, but no thought to long term.
One more really quick thing: did anyone really think this team, going into the year, was a playoff team? Due respect but I sure didn’t. So what do we get in next years draft with the lottery pick? We’re stuck with dach, but we coulda had a better center this year. Also, I ask again, how does dach help this team? Turcotte is fast, has killer vision, can shoot and pass, and never stops skating. Pure aggression. Based on your point about drafting on projections, I’d take that every day over dach’s 2C ceiling.
Thanks for the thoughts, really do enjoy other insights.</div></div>
Yeah although I am not gonna **** on Dach, and he is going to be a spectacular player one day, I really do think Turcotte was the way to go. I may be a little biased as I got to Wisconsin so I get to see him play which was one of my reasons for wanting him, the Hawks are SO ****ING SLOW. Turcotte has some nice wheels, the only real difference between turcotte and dach is the Turcotte has the speed, Dach has the hands. They both play hard in every other respect and are both going to be good players, but in my opinion because he doesn't have the top end speed, Dach kind of caps out at a really great 2C (which if we get another high draft pick we might be able to get a 1C) but with the 3rd overall you aren't really looking for that.
You kind of contradict yourself with a lot of the things you say here... Im going to start off by saying that the only bad trade was the Joki-Nylander trade, everything else can be defended and was made backed by pretty sound logic. Dach was the only center available that was going to be ready now, and going to be in the league now. See how none of the other players taken after Dach are in the NHL? So he was the only center that was going to be able to help us this season, and there was a reason that he was ranked the second best Skater in NA behind Hughes. You draft based on projectability. You don't judge an 18 year old rookie off of 20 games hes played. He clearly has somethings to work on, yes, but its actually ****ing stupid to say "oh yeah 20 games into his career he cant win a faceoff he has no place in the league this guy ****ing sucks" when the dude broke Eichels ankles twice in one game. There is clearly talent there, his hands are insane, and he plays hard in both ends of the ice. Dont doubt Mark Kelley (and the pick was his decision, not Bowmans by the way), the dude has made some solid picks over the years. The maatta trade was probably made before we knew De Haan was available for such a low price, and maatta was known to be on the market, so why not and go get a clear upgrade from Koekkoek and Dahlstrom when we know we have cap space to work with? We were able to trade Kahun because the front office was so confident in Kubaliks ability, and while he hasnt been as productive as Kahun, not being on a line with Crosby or Malkin will do that to you. You can't sit here and tell me Bowman didn't do a decent job this summer. He picked up 2 clear upgrades for our defence and landed Lehner, one of the best goalies in the league so far. The only person who can be to blame is Colliton, and even so, Colliton doesn't coach these guys to tell them to let 3 guys open in front of the net. Colliton doesn't coach them to let some guy free in front of the net on a slap shot from the point to be deflected without Lehner or Crow having a damn chance to save it. This laziness and mediocrity is purely on the players and you can't really give a strong argument otherwise. If you have even watched a single game you would have seen the laziness and the poor effort everyone but the 4th line gives, and it isn't particularly close. Sure Bowman isn't the right man for the job anymore, if the decision is to rebuild, because he doesn't have a long term future here. But to tell me he hasn't done anything in his power to get the best guys on the market without giving up a whole lot (again, minus the Jokiharju trade), is absolutely ludicrous.