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Dec 8, 2019
Toronto Maple Leafs
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<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Eli</b></div><div>Oshie's on a 59 point pace this year, plays both special teams, and can play 1R, 2C, 3R, 3C, PPR, PPC, PPLD, or PK. A Buffalo fan suggested Tage Thompson and a high 2nd for Oshie, this morning. Maybe they're giving up on Thompson and just valuing Oshie at a high 2nd, but to outbid a high 2nd, a late 1st doesn't seem too out there.
eta: yes, Andersen and Der-Arguchuntsev have some value, too, so yeah, it's a bit of an overpay for Oshie, unless Tor is clearing the way for a Merzlikens trade that hasn't happened, but above they are, so WSH gets to shrug off Andersen's value and point out that Der-Arguchuntsev might be their fourth ranked center prospect after the trade, slightly behind McMichael, Protas, and Lapierre, but slightly ahead of Pilon. Granted, you can never have too many skilled prospects, but that's not a reason to move a 1R on a good contract when the team is in win-now mode.</div></div>
Oshie isn't on the left side and that's the only way I see the leafs moving the first this year is for a 1/2 LW
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>mikearky</b></div><div>What source are you referencing? Again most pundits have Wings in the top half of prospect rankings.
So you say, but pundits who do this for a living say different. You could be right, no offense I read several sources who say differently. Yes will.all the prospects pan out, of course not, we both know that, but to say most are pickers is opinion, based only on your definition. Yzerman proved , whether by luck or just good scouting, can draft well. If what you say is they should take more picks and propsects for proven players makes no sense. You defeat your own arguement. If the cupboard is bare then why give him more bullets just to waste them.
Again, I have stated on here many times, teams in a rebuild need to draw a line in the sand and start from there. If we trade Mantha, Bertuzzi and Hronek for futures and they pan out or look like they are planning out, teams in the next 4 to 5 years will say, you need to rebuild and take picks and younger prospects. It creates a cycle or never ending rebuild. Wings become a feeder system for other clubs. Not truly a NHL team.
Are the Wings down, yes no question. Have they hit rock bottom, I hope so, but I beleive so and now it is up to Yzerman to guide the team forward.
Will Bertuzzi or other young players like Mantha, Zadina, Hronek or Larkin be dealt, maybe but they are not being traded for younger players who have proved nothing for the same position. They will trade them to plug holes where we have lack or prospect talent.
Sandin probably is not getting traded, I understand, but the Wings will want what they want or they will pass. Some on this post make it like Wings have no choice, and that is just arrogance.</div></div>
I don't disagree with any of that. I think I'm being misunderstood. Of course Detroit has good prospects but I just don't think all of them are as good as some people think, I think the majority of yzermans picks have been pretty good picks im simply saying guys who might be 5+ years older than the majority of the players hitting the team now could be dealt for impact players or prospects of high quality too better fit the long term dynamic of the team. Of course you want to fill needs but it's extremely rare to see a team give up there absolute #1 prospect for a guy who will be on the 2nd or 3rd line. Those assets are reserved for idk let's say Florida was in the tank and barkov was on his last or second last year THATS the type of player you move your number 1 prospect and maybe number 2 prospect. Bertuzzi is a better kapanen so when everyone said we got way more than what he was worth than realistically that's a package that could get a Bertuzzi type and hallander was nowhere near top prospect.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BStinson</b></div><div>I can see an argument for Hyman but ultimately Bertuzzi has achieved more at a younger age and still has two seasons with higher production than Hyman while still being 4ish years younger.
So again, Detroit is a top 5 prospect pool now but according to you in the previous 3 drafts they sucked? That doesn’t even make sense nor judging prospects a year or two after their draft. Yzerman has only been here for 2 but I’ll just point out the three drafts. Zadina (top 6 winger with top line potential) graduated, Berggren (top 6 winger tearing up SHL), Veleno (mid 6 center prospect looking good on a terrible SHL team), McIsaac (LD defensive D thats had injury issues with possible second pairing potential), Seider (arguably the best defense prospect not in the NHL and setting SHL records), Tuomisto (NCAA defensemen with a ton of tools to love), Wallinder is similar to Tuomisto but SHL bound, Lucas Raymond (first line winger potential), and Neiderbach (mid six potential skilled center). That’s just looking at the past three years and couple rounds while having the worst lottery luck in that span and you’re looking at judging non-first rounders within a couple years of a draft especially defensemen, jeez that’s grasping at straws backpedaling. If my team wanted a proven NHL player and we were in a position to contend then yeah I’d give up futures to help my team win a cup...</div></div>
Ah Raymond I knew I was forgetting one, and prospects are players not in the NHL so zadina doesn't count here. As for the others Toronto has extremely similar picks doing the same thing. What I'm saying is the top pedigree picks that's it not the fringe top end talent. In relation to amount of picks they have had they aren't bringing as much out of those picks. And I'm not saying it's Yzerman I think he is a good gm for sure I think it was the two years before Yzerman that hurt their prospect pool. I guess it's a difference in opinion. Also Hyman is only two years older. I agree Bertuzzi has a bit more production but Hyman is the literal complete player that needs to be cloned for science.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>mikearky</b></div><div>1st Wings have several prospects, what they need a is a LHD. They ha e several forwards in the pipeline, Raymond, Berrgren, Zadina, Rasmussen, Veleno, Soderbloom and defensemen like Sieder, Toumisto and to a lesser extent McIssacs.
Bertuzzi is still a RFA after this year and rebuilding teams rarely trade good young players for younger unknown players and picks. Bertuzzi is a very good player and part of the rebuild not an asset that is expendable. Generally, rebuilding teams trade older players with little term and maybe salary retention. Rebuilding teams trading young RFA players for younger players just make the rebuilding team a feeder team for other teams and prolongs the rebuild.</div></div>
I'm not trying to be rude at all when I say this, but the wings have one of the lowest ranked prospect pools in the NHL, I think if you can improve it at any position you need too.