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Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsApr 11 at 6:31
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Tntpod</b></div><div>Detroit wins by miles and miles and miles since Zucker is a good top 6 player, Blueger is doing pretty good this season compared to last season, Petterson is pretty good, and Nielsen and Glendening have contracts that are unmovable. The only bright spot moving for Detroit is Anthony Mantha, who by the way is struggling.

Im a Pens fan and no offense, but this hurts to look at nevertheless even hear someone talking about it</div></div>

They need cap flexibility longer term and moving Pettersson accomplishes that. Zucker has looked good in flashes but has also looked lost on the Pens; some guys just don't fit here (Perron, Brassard, etc). That doesn't mean they're bad players. It also doesn't mean he can't turn it around here still, I just see Mantha as a better fit.

Mantha may be "struggling", but he's also only 26 (Zucker is 29) andthe Red Wings don't score goals... He IS 2nd on their team in points. He's also big with a great shot and at this point in his career, a legitimate top 6 winger. Maybe I'm overvaluing him. I just think he would be a great fit on the 2nd line. Malkin is a passer at heart and Mantha is a shooter. Zucker is good, but he isn't necessarily a shooter.

Sadly, you are grossly underestimating Glendening; he just wins faceoffs... Like he is one of the best faceoff guys in the league. Couple that with his work effort and how he's a UFA after the year, and you get a guy who would stabilize the 4th line immediately. I'm sure we could resign him too.

If Mantha sucked here so be it... but his ceiling IS quite high. Would be exciting to get him. Nielsen, like I said, doesn't really matter. But you can't have too much center depth, and maybe playing for a team with an actual shot at the Cup would spark a fire under his ass. You know, because he's been on a team with 0% chance for 5 plus years.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsApr 11 at 6:23
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Tntpod</b></div><div>Honestly in my opinion this is fair BUT the Devils will say no because they’re giving up Severson and Kulikov for Matheson and a 2nd rounder + The 3rd shouldn’t matter and even if it did the Penguins win because the NJD are not as good as the Pens so the Pens will likely advance a few spots and choose a better guy,
And finally, we have Wedgewood. Scott Wedgewood has been an ok goaltender who can provide some relief but isn’t worth a 2nd.
Unless the other 2nd was traded for NJD’s 3rd and the 3rd Pittsburgh has is to acquire Wedgewood that’s a different story, but overall it’s a fair deal where the Pens have a slighter edge.

Omg I typed way too much.</div></div>

Well I don't care about Wedgewood that much honestly would just be some insurance they don't technically need. I mean if the Fitz likes Wedgewood as a person, he might as well include him so he gets a chance to play meaningful games. Unless of course there are other teams who drove up the price. Then forget about him being included.

As far as the draft picks, the Devils do need 'em. It's not just a 2nd and a 3rd though, it's also moving up from their 3rd rd pick this year to another 2nd, which would give them 4 in the first 2 rounds in the upcoming draft. I mean if the Devils didn't value draft capital this deal never works.

I just kept adding to it haha, like if you just had it as Kulikov for a 2nd/3rd next year I'd be 100% ok with that too; he is the guy I'd really like to see the Pens try to get. He checks the GRIT box and fills a legitimate roster need in blue line depth.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsApr 11 at 6:03
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsApr 11 at 5:46
I meant to put Nielsen's salary at 50% retained, which would make the cap hits basically even. I'd imagine Zucker has Detroit on his NTC list, but if he waived it, I don't think this is too much to give up for Mantha, who is big and scores goals. With Zucker his place in the lineup is fluctuating; he hasn't looked bad by any means, but Mantha just brings more outright offense to the table.

For Detroit, they get Blueger for another cheap year, and this would be a great opportunity for him to play up in the lineup. Either way, he is a very solid younger Center. Pettersson and Zucker are actually good players, and with Zucker he is only signed for another two seasons, so they actually would save on the cap longer term.

Their blue line has nobody signed longer term, and while Pettersson is slightly over paid, he would have every opportunity to play into this deal, and it could become a bargain if he continues to develop. He's still only 24.

Either way, I feel like this deal helps both teams, especially the Pens in the short term. All Glendening does is win face offs; he is an ideal 4th line center for the Pens at the moment. Mantha is just a top 6 winger, hands down. He has size and a great shot. I feel like he would be a fixture in the top two lines for the entirety of his deal, maybe a legit Malkin career extender.

Nielsen doesn't add on the ice at this point in his career, but you can never have too much center depth. Including him makes the salaries work on the cap sheet, although he isn't owed much on the last years of this deal. His inclusion further allows Detroit to have cap flexibility, which they clearly want for their rebuild.

Do the Red Wings value Pettersson? Or would it have to be Marino for this deal to work? Either way, for Detroit, Blueger is a great piece for a rebuilding team that needs to establish some form of defensive identity. Zucker's career numbers are pretty good, and he is signed for less years than Mantha. My man's still got some wheels. For Detroit, would you rather have Mantha for 3 more seasons, or Pettersson and Blueger for the next 4, at least?

For a team with one of the worst blue lines in the league and pretty poor center depth it makes sense.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJul 24, 2020 at 12:42
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJul 23, 2020 at 8:20
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJul 22, 2020 at 5:54
<a href="/users/Nighthawk" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@Nighthawk</a> My thinking was that, on paper, those 3 pieces without the first DO make sense, but to get the #1 pick from last year this early in his career, you kind of have to overpay, at least a little bit. The thing is though VAN is a win now team and if they pulled this off, it would be a huge boost for the organization.

They would have to figure out where Hughes fits in, but coming from one of the worst teams in the league to a true contender stacked with role models, young players, and his brother... you'd think he would probably figure it out. Or Travis Green would at least.

<a href="/users/Kotkaniemi15" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@Kotkaniemi15</a> NJ would do this for a number of reasons, but mainly to be nice to Jack so he could play with his brother.

I find it interesting you say these players are just "ok", because that's completely and utterly missing the point.

Gaudette and Virtanen are everyday NHL players at the time of this writing, coming into RFA status this offseason. They both have legitimate potential, with a couple seasons before their true primes hit. This Devils team is going to suck again next year, which would be a huge opportunity for these guys to get paid and prove they belong in the league. I could see Ruff playing both of these guys big time minutes and in more varied situations. Sure they could both fail, but with the added motivation and opportunity I don't find that likely.

So directly in the now, NJ might be getting 2 (not 3) ok NHL players in this deal, but they have high ceilings that if fulfilled, would mean both graduated from ok to good. And while it's an outside shot, they could also both be really good one day. Both of them.

You have to take that into account looking at this deal as these are both far from finished players on the ice who are still under team control.

Nighthawk actually already pointed out reasonable expectations for both of them above.

The other player you were talking about, Juolevi, is a far from finished piece. He is not an NHL player right now. So to deem him OK makes no sense, because we have no idea what he is at the NHL level. He has done decent enough in the AHL from my scope at his numbers, but this is a guy who was picked #5 in 2016 over guys at his position like Sergachev, McAvoy, Chychrun, and Girard, all who have NHL jobs at legit salaries. What does that mean? Could be nothing. Could be that he is the second coming of Nick Lidstrom. We don't know. But he is a super valuable prospect, and if he pans out, and those other two ok guys become good, then this trade has already paid for itself.

Which brings me to the 1st rd pick. I don't understand why you would devalue that and say "late first" because we have no idea where that pick will land whatsoever. But the thing is, it doesn't matter. Sure a crap team's 1st would be better, but in general 1sts are incredibly valuable in today's NHL. Even if Fitzgerald didn't want to use the pick itself, it would allow him to do some very interesting trades if he wanted to. To gain market flexibility on a team with tons of cap space is desirable.

A more accurate way to put what you said would be to call it a mid to late 1st, and since we don't know at all where it will land, yours is a very short sighted assessment.

To illustrate this point, let's look back to 2015. This was the last draft class that, right now with 100% certainty, we can say was completely loaded. Funnily enough it might also go down as the worst moment in Boston draft history which I find to be quite amusing. Imagine if they had picked Barzal and Connor with DeBrusk!! But that's besides the point. From pick 15 down we have these players selected: Barzal (16), Connor (17), Boeser (23), Konecny (24), and Beauvillier (28). That's 4 super good NHL players and one who could be soon.

For perspective, Barzal, Connor, and Boeser were all much, much better in their rookie years than Jack Hughes was. Barzal won the Calder and Boeser was a finalist who got injured. Hughes couldn't even come close to a whiff of the Calder this year.

Not to take anything away from the young man, but if we are going to be honest, Jack Hughes just had the worst rookie season of a #1 overall pick since Nail Yakupov's rookie season in '12. And also, Yak's rookie year was WAY better than Hughes' just was. So the biggest #1 overall draft bust of the past decade had a MUCH better rookie year than Hughes just did.

Let that sink in.

Sure he was the #1 pick, but #2 Kappo Kakko also had a dirt rookie season on a stacked Rangers team. It's quite early, but the 2019 draft class might have just been a bad one.

That is a legitimate risk at this point, and while again it is early, I feel like the chances of those 4 pieces being better over time is pretty high. Especially if they use the pick correctly and sign the RFAs to smart deals.

If Jack Hughes had just put up a Crosby like 100+ P in his first year, this is a moot discussion. But he basically just did the opposite of that.

So why does NJ do this trade? Take your pick

A. It would be nice to see Jack play with Quinn for their entire careers on a team that just had their super star brothers retire not too long ago. Or in other words, compassion.
B. Players acquired benefit their TEAM.
C. Market Flexibility
D. Draft Capital
E. More is (sometimes) better in a team sport like hockey

My answer is
F. All of the effing above
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJul 21, 2020 at 1:39
<a href="/users/MJCrv" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><a href="/users/MJCrv" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@MJCrv</a></a> TBH as a Pens fan, I'm with you on not wanting Murray, and it sucks to say that; he's just been way too inconsistent since Fleury left. That doesn't mean you couldn't get legit value for him, it just means that I personally am not the biggest fan. Getting him in a trade is a long term commitment as well and he is due for a fat raise. Overall, I hope they trade him over Jarry, and that's saying something. But league wide I'd imagine he would carry more value due to his playoff success and great numbers a couple of seasons ago, although as a GM I would be extremely hesitant to give him a deal over 3 years, and even that would be tough for me. You know he is going to want 5+.

<a href="/users/reelkena" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@reelkena</a> Like I said, I'm biased, but I do like this trade for the Pens. Montour is a question mark, and if he sucks, then this deal falls apart quick. For me I would be willing to sign him to another short term deal, but in todays NHL, what follows from a bridge deal is usually a more legitimate long term one. Much like with Murray, I'd be hesitant to give Montour a deal like that, but if somebody has watched a lot of him and has an opinion (maybe <a href="/users/MJCrv" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><a href="/users/MJCrv" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@MJCrv</a></a>) I'd be all ears.

Either way, you're right, and Mittlestadt is rather inconsequential. Maybe he has a resurgence under Sullivan but it looks more like the kid just wasn't as good as his draft position. It happens. Johansson though, is interesting to me. He just had a solid AF playoffs for Boston last season. He is on an expiring deal. And if he got traded to us we would most likely not honor his trade protection. So if he sucked, we could flip him at the deadline to a team on the bubble, but if he was good, we might get another banner. Low key would be happy to have him here, he'd be the most legit 3C we had since Bonino left.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJul 21, 2020 at 1:28
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJul 20, 2020 at 8:28
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Kotkaniemi15</b></div><div>First off, neither of the Hughes brothers (that are currently in the NHL) are getting traded.

As for the Subban &amp; a 1st part, the price for Marleau’s $6.5 million was a first, so Subban’s $9 million total should cost at least that. And this draft is overhyped, just like every single draft before it happens. There are good players, but this is just an average draft like any other. The sky certainly is not the limit with 2 1st rounders. 2 1sts gets you Blake Coleman, not a franchise player in Quinn Hughes. For Subban you’re looking at a 3rd of Hughes’s production, with way more defensive mistakes. The only team where Subban could be an effective defenseman is where a team is so deep on D that they can shelter Subban to only PP time and offensive zone starts against the other team’s worst players.

And adding Boeser would make this deal even worse.

I think you’re vastly overvaluing the 1sts, and vastly undervaluing Quinn Hughes.</div></div>

I think you're vastly undervaluing draft capital, PK Subban, the market in general, and VAN's need to sign other players.

First off, I guess you missed the part where I said NJ should retain salary. I'd say, to pull this off, they could even go upwards of 60% retention. Subban for 2 years at 4M or less is totally workable. What you just said about Subban putting up a 3rd of Hughes production is an opinion; the guy was a Norris finalist 2 seasons ago and his career numbers are really good, both analytically and traditionally.

He's also noticeably better throughout his career defensively than Hughes was in his first season. Look it up. Hughes is a much more offensively inclined D than Subban with about a 50/50 split for his career split between O and D zones, compared to Hughes 58/42. As you can see, Subban is much less reliant on starting in the O zone than Quinn is.

For you to sit here and say that he is that bad on D is silly. If he sucks this year so be it, but first year on NJ and they were a dumpster fire of a team. If you don't think he could quarterback the VAN PP you're kidding yourself.

So you're analysis of Subban is just wrong. He is not that bad whatsoever. He still plays over 22 minutes a night like he has his entire career and he still can put up numbers in the right situation. He is included in this trade because he is the best option on NJ to fill Hughes spot and VAN is still a win now team.

Next, for you to say this draft is overhyped beforehand like they all are is just wrong. Some classes are noticeably weaker, and some are stronger. I remember, in 2012, that it was said to be a fairly weak year. Looking back that was a true assessment. I don't know enough about this one to say that it is legitimately good or bad, but I've heard more than once that this was supposed to be an especially deep class.

But whatever, it's still 2 1st round picks. They don't have to use them, and other teams would love to get them.

So with the retention of Subban by NJ, VAN also gets more cap space with this trade. That would be another plus of doing it, because they have a bunch of players they need to resign, both this offseason and over the next couple.

They get draft capital, cap room, and TWO players who can help the team in this trade. Subban would slot in for most, if not all, of Hughes minutes right away. Surrounded by supreme offensive talent, he would probably have a resurgent year.

Ty Smith, who you completely ignored, was a former 1st round pick who could potentially slot into a top 4 role in the next 2-3 years. He is by no means a throw in as he has legitimate promise.

I am certainly not overrating the 1sts, I am simply treating them as the league treats them: as highly valuable pieces to building a team. What if NJ took one of the later ones away, and included theirs instead, slated at #7? Would that make a difference? It should; I chose not to include that one because of how much they were already giving up for Hughes. I look at it like this.

Ty Smith, PK Subban at 45-80% retention and 2 1sts for Hughes. That seems fair to me honestly.

And that has nothing to do with me undervaluing Quinn.

That's a legitimate package for anybody in the league. When was the last time you saw 2 1st round picks traded for anybody, now that I think of it?

Subban isn't a throw in. He had a bad year on a bad team. It happens.

Eriksson is a throw in because to make this deal NJ has to take him off their hands.

So you couple that package with the cap freedom of no more Eriksson and it's a fair deal.

But of course I get why VAN wouldn't do it, because they love Quinn and he's young af.

That's why this is a fake trade on a website.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJul 20, 2020 at 12:07