Of the big 4 im giving a pass to Willy but a slight one as man the body language he gave floating in for OT not good. Like watch the Pasta winner. Hustle a bit your not a slow guy lul you skated in the fastest skater comp

Matthews doesnt get a full pass but im not gonna go after him due to health issues. Guy looked sick in the interview. That said game 1,3, and 4 not good enough and should have never played game 7 sorry. Agreed only dominant performance up to standard game 2. Game 1 man was that ugly high stick penalty that leads to a bruin goal


Marner and JT yea not good enough

Tavares had 1 PP goal and 1 5 on 5 point for 11m not good enough. I know he's past his prime but come on

Marner had 1 goal 2 assists, had some moments but again not good enough

Knies had the same goals as both combined and is on an ELC


Berube or whoever comes in first things first should sit them down and go this is what I expect you dont play this way you sit got it

Marner could have brushed off the question we have seen players do it before

"I will leave it to my agent" or like ROR "lot to think about wait and see"

The fact he didnt makes this not a clear cut case as we all think.

Could I see a split up yes but do I think its gonna happen 50/50 rn.

Cause lets be real Marner and the boyz have dealt with this kind of hate before (CBJ and MTL) then people forgot about it come the b2b TBL series

We will see what Brad says or does but its a wait and see.


But if I was Marner the smart move despite people's dislike is stay here use contract fever to have himself a record breaking season by his standards get around 110-120 points then cash out somewhere

As whether we like it or not having Matthews, Willy, etc as linemates along with a new coach whose system could fit you has its advantages

Most people talk about them wanting to come back...

And when Friedman's saying they both would like to part ways, I see it happening...

I think it's 75/25 Marner gets traded

Matthews wasn't healthy, you can't hold him to the fire over that.

I get the hatred of Marner. And as I keep saying, if you can move him for fair value, do so. But if you are trading him for the sake of trading someone and lose it handily. Then you made a mistake.

They should have fired Keefe last year. How would things have gone with a better coach at the helm? It's hard to say but if you eliminate all the variables. One thing that has been a constant. Keefe's teams do not score in the playoffs when it matters. No one does but Willy.

So trading Marner for two lesser players and thinking that is going to mean the world is frankly just emotional nonsense.

Tried to nultiquote but whatever..the next page thing messed it @Leafsfan98

Matthews should have just not played if he didn't have the energy to bring the dominant performance we saw in game 2. Probably would have been better off because the rest of players would know they really have to up their game knowing he wouldn't be in the lineup.

You guys don't want to give Willy a pass? Fine with me because aside from scoring goals this year and past years, Willy's attention to defensive details have lacked badly in playoff games.

I did see both of you just ignore all the past playoff performances. As if ONLY THIS YEAR matters. It's whole playoff performances issue I was bringing up, not just a single game.

Im going 50/50 as who knows what if the new HC says I want Marner here. Never know

Cause I feel Berube or whoever will want to come in and have a chance to turn these guys into a more well oiled machine

But who knows lets see.

I hate the fact I was right about him coming back. I knew he wasnt gonna be 100% and I knew teams play would dip with him back

It frustrated me to the core to see the predictability of this team coming to life again. Would they have won game 7 without him idk but maybe they would have at least started on time like 5 and 6

Willy I am giving a pass but the ending on the Pasta goal has me also going not a good look but there be a crack in that pass. As the body language in that OT on the Pasta winner of him floating in not food


In the end lots of decisions to be had lets see

Yea I think Berube's gonna be the new HC that TNT thing yesterday may have just gave it away

As his eyes just looked like "how the **** they know im talking to Brad or Shanahan lul"

Also think its fair to say this is the shopping list no matter if Marner or JT are traded or now

1. A 1B goalie (Woll just just cant stay healthy to just go for a 15-20 game backup)

2. A middle 6 Center (Guy who can play 2c or 3c)

3. Two top 4 RD

Yeah, because that's what competitive hockey players who want to do anything they can to help their team win on the ice do... This part is stupid as players play through stuff bc they want to win and they believe they provide their team the best chance to win...

I love how you ignored that I mentioned past playoffs, Matthews has been better than Willy and everyone else...

I don't think any coach would tell the Leafs that they're nor coming if Marner's on the team...

You would be surprised as ironically Keefe's an example of it happening.

When Keefe became HC and there were talks of a Barrie trade he told Dubas let me see what I can do and salvaged the guy

Could happen to where Berube or whoever could say dont trade Marner or whoever just yet let me see what I can do with them as the HC for sure's coming before any trade happens.

I think most coaches who'll come in, would rather work with Matthews as the big player...

Sure but there's a saying why have one toy to work with when you can have 3.

Could be a prime chance for anyone as imagine they turn them into well oiled machines for both regular season and playoffs and win some rounds

A statue's going in front of Scotiabank thats for sure lul

Now again could their also be change via trades of one of them also sure but who knows rn. There are multiple routes to go about it lets see

Oh I will, when he is the one that made the mistake. But that play is not on him. Rielly and Samsonov shoulder the blame there. Not Marner.

Other things he did definitely deserve scrutiny but certainly not that. It's the same as blaming him for a goal against after a line change when everyone was in good position but mistakes by those players resulted in a goal. The guy wasn't even on the ice.

For the OT winner, had Marner chased pasta, pasta could have back handed it to the point where no one was now defending and the leafs would have been out of position and chasing the play. Who knows what could have happened but in that instance, a dump in from centre to that corner is the defencemans responsibility. Rielly hesitated for a second and changed directions. (Hence why I think he expected the puck to go behind the net). It hits the stanchion and bounces to Pasta who Rielly should have been closer too by then. Samsonov drops to his knees and hugs the post and didn't move until pasta was nearly at the far post.

Samsonov lost focus on that play. He should have stopped it.

It's the picture perfect play as to why he never should have been given the number 1 role. The guy makes saves he has no business making sometimes and that excites people. But then goal 1 and 2 happen. The first goal he was just out of position and the puck went in. If he was square to the shooter it hits him. Woll would have stopped that. Woll would have challenged pasta and either poke checked or slid over in time.

Samsonov I would say cost us more than anyone else apart from Keefe.

And really, anyone expecting high scoring games was ridiculous. Boston doesn't let in much. They defend better than almost every other team. To beat them you have to do exactly what Florida did. Pressure them and force some odd man rushes. Which TO did rarely but look at their goals, most of which were transition plays. Off the cycle they had nothing. But Keefe stuck to that system. Take it up ice, get it into their zone and then maintain possession and cycle until they make a mistake. Well Boston just didn't make any. And their goalie was awesome. Boston didn't make it easy and we Keefe made it easier on them by not adjusting to what they were doing.

As I keep saying, I am not opposed to trading Marner if you get good value. I say this because while it can't be denied he's a world class player, I am not sure he has the mental fortitude to handle TO. So would I trade him? Yes, if I got fair value for him.

If the best we can do is Parayko or some other 2nd pair defenceman who's already 30 years old and signed for another 6 years, then it's stupid to trade him. And you can't let him walk. So if no good trade comes to fruition then you keep him and hope a new coach can employ a better system that provides some offence in the playoffs.

You miss all the nuance involved in hockey.

Pointing at Willy on the winning goal is as ridiculous as the guy blaming Marner for a goal that happened when he wasn't on the ice. The OT winner was a weird play but Rielly should have been hustling to the corner. If you watch the replay, he does hesitate and change direction a moment which makes me think he felt it was going to go behind the net. It didn't, bounced right to Pasta who wasn't exactly flying. Then watch Sammy, he went down immediately and just stayed against the post until Pasta was very obviously going across the crease. No poke check and he barely moved across. Those two are the ones to blame. Willy was irrelevant to the play. Lybushkin would be the next closest player to the play after Rielly, but at that point he was irrelevant to the play as well.

This is the emotional responses that frustrate me. You guys are all mad, very mad. And you can't see past your anger. Blood must be spilled to appease your emotions.

Marner
JT
Rielly
And then
Willy/Matthews

That the hierarchy of blame going around fandom right now. It should be

Keefe
Samsonov

And then Marner.

Matthews and Willy did all they could despite being sick and hurt. JT played well enough. I know everyone says he didn't produce and he didn't but I am not sure what everyone expected vs Boston. This is one of the best defensive teams in the game. Did we honestly think it was going to be 3-4 goals against vs this squad? I didn't. Been saying it from the start. To beat Boston you need to win a couple 3-2 or 2-1. Yeah the PP looked awful but Swayman did make a lot of great saves and Boston does have a very good PK. It's not like we played a run of the mil defensive team and then didn't show up. We played the 2nd best.

But the team was coached to do the same thing it always does. Get the puck in the zone and cycle until the front opens up. The problem is, with Boston that just doesn't ever happen.

Its not emotional again everyone is saying the same thing

Its not working

PK Subban has a quote and its one that fits

The definition of insanity is mediocrity

TOR has won 1 round in 8 years with these players

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAscGIXz70Y&ab_channel=TSN

CJ and Mark Masters are right on the ball with this one

They have fired coaches, brought in new gm's, built around them in every way possible its just not working

Its time for a change and not just repeating what we have seen year after year enough is enough one of them has to go.

In the end none but Willy to some degree had a good showing vs. BOS can think what you want but results matter and once again out in 7 vs. Bos for 4th straight time

I want change as well but change that makes sense.

And how does moving one of the big 4 not make sense when in 8 years together it hasnt worked lul

CJ and Masters along with others here have put it best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAscGIXz70Y&ab_channel=TSN

Cant add good depth, cant have a good Dcore or invest in a proper goalie

Lot to issues all triangulated to how much were giving these guys. Take one or two away and look at what they can do lul

Will a new coach help some issues yes but there are still core issues to be worked on to

Geez I just read his comments in his short media availability today. "You get treated like a god here". Alright, **** off Marner. You're no god, your a spoiled brat though.

I have come around. God complex Marner needs to go.

Its not that Marner is viewing himself or the others as gods that quote was a bit misinterpreted by the media again

This is more so what was meant

In Canada sports players especially the good ones are treated a bit differently compared to the USA and in Toronto or the media capital of the sports world especially as many are idolized or worshipped by the fans to the point where it almost seems godlike at times.

From the Raptors to Blue Jays and even the Leafs we have seen it the media is hounding them like they some spectacle to behold

Now I am not excusing him for his performance this playoffs but we have seen this to often where media just takes a little thing and runs with it without putting it into context and then the fanbase goes crazy.

Rod Brind'Amour and Kadri have even made note of it when discussing TOR media.

Its a factor as to why many dont want to stay or come here and it sucks sometimes

Yah, I understand what point he was trying to make but the fact that that actually came out of his mouth is pathetic. What a slap in the face to your fans man

Come on, don't he condescending. I live in Canada, I know what he's talking about athletic celebrity. But to use the word "god" says more about him than it does about the situation. Feeling like a rock star is fine, cool. But God, that's him saying how he feels in TO. And nah, you're a tool if you think you're a god among men.

I am sure he'd roll his eyes and say that's not what he meant but words have meaning and I see that as another strong indicator of Marner's mental immaturity. He's never going to be what I hoped he'd be and I think moving him for something else would benefit the team. Domi seems to be able to help Matthews enough and Willy doesn't need Marner either. I'd either hope for a up and coming 2C. And picks or whatever. If you can find a defenceman who's 25-27 years old and right handed with #1 potential, go for it. But I doubt that's available.

After those comments though, he needs to go. Sure the media is intense but God complex Marner constantly feeling sorry for himself does him no favors. He sees himself as larger than life, why doesn't everyone worship him?

Unless he somehow turns on a dime and becomes a better team player he's done.

It is. It's a window into his mind and it's not good. He sees himself as bigger than anything else. He's probably a decent teammate but he's pretty immature. He's gotta go.

Take a look at a few cities and decide where you want to go. But its not here anymore. Doesn't matter if you are a local boy, god complexes are for somewhere else.