I’d rather have picks now to develop and be ready while our window is still open than a few years down the road.

I mean I’d like picks every year but that isn’t possible right now for them so

I kinda disagree when on the assumption that the Leafs window is gonna close a few years down the road. Even if Matthews leaves summer of 2029...well that's 13m to spend elsewhere. If teams spend to the cap wisely, the window is always open. Look at the Bruins for over a decade.

As a business owner Marner is 100% the best name to get. He is a genuinely marketable guy to casual audiences in a way Stammer isn't.

Stamkos has a relationship and reputation in TB that won't extend to casual fans in Utah. Marner also has a reputation and he's young, good looking, hosts charity events, loves being involved in the community, giving pucks to kids at warmup. Just go to a Leafs game and see what jersey all the kids are wearing. That's the guy you want. Those kids will drag their parents and friends to the rink.

The player "hardcore" fans think is marketable is never who actually brings in the money.

It is going to close because they haven't been focused on drafting and developing. And they haven't been maximizing their assets.

The reason the Bruins window was extended so long is because from the time it opened in 2001 they have commited to strong drafting, constant retooling and trading away assets.

2001- 2004 they were in the playoffs.
2005 they trade Thornton.
Miss 2 years of playoffs
2007-2014 there were in the playoffs. In that time they traded Kessel and Seguin
2015 Dougie Hamilton trade
2017 - Present back in the playoffs.

It's likely the end of the road now when Marchand falls off and Pasta declines but keeping their picks and making those big deals were key for them.


The Leafs haven't done this. If they had them they would also have a 25+ year window with a few retools.

Imagine if
2017 - Don't trade a 2nd for Boyle in a year we know we are going out in the 1st round.
2018 - Trade Bozak (signed 3x$5M the next summer with St. Louis so likely gets a 1st+) and JVR (signed 5x$7M with Phili so likely gets a 1st+). ALSO don't trade a 2nd for Plekanec.
2020 - Trade Barrie (Dubas said he has offers including a 1st),
2021- Trade Freddie
2022/2023 - Trade Marner or Nylander.


If we do lol of that then we likely sit with a top 5 farm system in the league. And our current team is likely as good maybe even better than what it is today.

If Matthews leaves your rebuilding. Window is over era wasted

Even if Willy, Knies, Cowen, Minten etc still there dont matter you dont replace a 60-70 goal scorer that easily nor do I see us pull an Isles for a while.

The window's 4 years make it count

You're right one of the horrors of the Leafs is trading so many picks over the past seven years all for one playoff round win.
Having good young players on ELCs really helps the cap, and then you have control of them possibly at a cost controllable RFA price.

One thing that really gets overlooked when judging the organization/Shanahan is how poorly they handled the years after drafting Matthews.

From 2017-2021 when Matthews was 19-23 the Leafs:
1. Let Kadri go for no substantial return (Could have got a 1st+)
2. Traded a 1st to dump Marleau
3. Traded a 2nd for 2 months of Plekanec
4. Traded a 2nd for 2 months of Boyle
5. Let Bozak walk (Could have got a 1st+)
6. Let JVR walk (Could have got a 1st+)
7. Let Gardiner walk (Could have got a 2nd)
8. Signed Zaitsev to a deal that cost use Brown

If the team had continued to remain commited to the rebuild and longterm, even just through the end of the 2018 season (thats two years of Matthews career where they don't prioritize winning). Today we'd have 4 more 1st round picks, 3 more 2nd round picks. This is the depth/trade pieces/capital/etc. that we've been missing.

I really think Shanahan's failures go way beyond his commitment to the core 4. He drafted three studs in his first three years as President but I don't think any other decision he's made is beyond criticism and with hindsight they are pretty much all wrong. From hiring Babcock to firing Lou, hiring Dubas, hiring Keefe, going for it in Matthews first few seasons, Kadri trade, Contract negotiations, team building strategy, all failures.

Yep. It has been real frustrating looking back on all the players/picks/assets we've missed over dumb decisions.

1. Dubas
2. Lamoriello (Signed) Dubas (Dumped)
3. Lamoriello
4. Lamoriello
5. Dubas
6. Dubas
7. Dubas
8. Lamoriello

TLDR: Dubas loves letting guys walk for nothing, but Lamoriello seems to love giving horrible contracts that takes assets to dump and overpays on trades

See this is where Bias and not looking at the bigger picture comes in

At the time Kadri was traded people all over the NHL praised the return

Barrie was a offensive weapon with the Avs giving them around 50 points and 10 goals a season and Kerfoot was a 40+ point young C for them. And considering how much Kerfoot influenced this teams bottom 6 and PK and when he left the numbers dropped pretty evident. For Barrie Babcock pretty much almost ruined the guy. Could we have gotten better sure but Kadri had hurt his rep with suspensions and his trade protection didnt help. Sounds like someone else we know minus the suspensions

For Marleau had to move him as Marner was due for a new deal. Maybe could have done it for 2 2nds or 2nd + 3rd but would still have not been cheap

Why would we have traded JVR and Bozak when in 2017-2018 Leafs were having their best season at the time (105 points) and can apply the same to Gardiner to

Like I get it but competing teams dont trade their pending UFA's. Did TBL trade Stamkos?, did NYI trade JT?, did CBJ trade Panarin or CGY Gaudreau?

These are the risks competing teams go through year in and out

The only guys I will agree were Boyle and Plekenic thats it

The cap hit for Marleau was insane with the term too, I think the signing was a mistake for the price and I love Marleau.

Zaitsev contract was bad too don't forget

Tampa is a great example.

They traded St. Louis, Boyle, Bishop and more during their window with an eye to the future. All of this allowed them to grow from the team that came close in 2015 to the one that won in 2022.

I get that some moves like Kadri and Marleau are fine in the vacuum of that offseason but my point is Shanahan was there from the time Kadri signed his deal to when he was traded. It was a good return given that Kadri needed to be traded that offseason. Shanny was there when we signed Marleau, the need to trade a 1st to dump him is on him. Even if that trade in a vacuum needed to be done to keep Marner.

TBL also risked letting Stamkos walk for nothing back in 2018 and it could happen again in 2024

TBL has also let guys like Killorn and Palat walk for nothing

Its all just conjecture. Dont matter if Shanny is there or not lul

Same thing happened with CHI and many other competitive teams, its the nature of the business and competitive teams. TBL knew one year they werent gonna make the playoffs and so traded some guys away when they could but other times it was sorry cant afford yah see yah

Cap hit wasnt a problem at the time and he was productive for it. Issue was the one extra year.

Zaitsev was bad but honestly paying only Brown to get out of it was a blessing. As look at Brown now lul

Today would cost an arm a leg and one of Minten or Knies. Thats why I dont concern with Zaitsev in comparison to Marleau

None of these teams let guys walk when their core was 19-23 they did it when their core guys were 24-30.

Brown was worth a lot to Toronto. Would have been incredible to keep.

Age dont matter when you let em walk when they walk they walk

Cause anyone would have traded letting JVR and Bozak walking for a chance at JT lul

And they got it, did it work no but at the time again context

Leafs were competing back then and if JT didnt become available Leafs would have probs extended JVR and Bozak

He wasnt worth much. Had a down year and was making 2.1m

Like 8 goals and 21 assists and 1 assist in the playoffs = moveable

And now look at him. EDM regretting that deal as next year 3.25m bonus hit

Tsyplakov met with TML and MTL numerous times along with a few other teams, do y'all think he will possibly sign here?

I dont see the fit. He's a 1-way wing and while this team had issues scoring

Our PK and defense were also an issue

If Leafs trade Marner our PKers =

Kampf, Dewar, Holmberg, Jarnkrok, McMann, Nylander

And we already saw what happened when Kerfoot left

TOR should go get some 2-way guys who can fill the B6, Score, be on the PP/PK

Who should they target in your opinion?

Edited bc I didn't read the whole thing

Besides draft eligible prospects, Leaf pending free agents and big names like Roy, DeMelo etc. who should the Leafs look at this off season?

Dewar and Holmberg are more on the defensive end and are not real point getters.

2-way guys would be more like

Toffoli, Stephenson, Teräväinen, etc

Guys who can be on a PP and PK, give yah points, and just be effective


Now if I was to look at reasonable options

Heinen and Foegele would be interesting additions.


If we want to trade Texier is a name that would spark interest

I’d agree with your point, but unless you feel you have a legitimate shot to win the Cup, trade your pending UFAs. However, I find it funny that while 0/4 guys you mentioned were traded, 3/4 left and signed massive deals elsewhere.

My #1 target this summer would be Brandt Clarke.

From LA's perspective, they have problems in net and upfront that are much more pressing than adding to their D core. They also have Doughty and Spence who are similar offensive minded RHD. I just don't see them doing well if they go into next season with Doughty, Spence, Clarke as their RHD. They wouldn't be able to maximize the value of any of them given there is limited PP time to share and they wouldn't have a single D pairing with two guys who can play real solid in the defensive zone.

So as much as LA fans will say he is untouchable, I think if you really look at their lineup, it doesn't make sense. Maybe they do what they did last offseason and trade the proven commodity in Spence to make space for Clarke (the same way they traded Durzi to make space for Spence) but that didn't go well last time.

From Toronto's perspective, Clarke is unproven and would likely cost a significant asset (Marner) but he profiles exactly like Bouchard when looking at his style and point production at the junior/AHL levels while being better than Bouchard in his own zone (low bar but he clears it). Toronto could afford to pair him with a solid DFD to support him at 5v5 then let him lose on the PP. He'd finally give the Leafs a legit PP QB with a wicked shot, great vision and solid passing. I think having his shot on the PP will massively improve the PP cause right now forwards really cheat on Matthews because Marner and Rielly don't have great shots. If the guy at the top can wire it and you have Bertuzzi or another big body in front of the next then they need to cover that lane which should leave Matthews and Nylander open on the halfwalls to take shots.

I personally think this is the biggest need for the team immediately. Obviously if you could rebuild the team from scratch there is lots about the identity that we'd all want to change but if you are asking me the easiest way to get this team out of the first round, then IMO its getting a PP QB like Clarke to ensure we score 4/5 PP goals per series, that alone should be enough to overcome the 1/2 goals we always seem to lose by.

Second priority would be getting support for Woll, again if we have him at his best and we save 2-3 more goals per series suddenly these two changes are increasing out goal differential in a 7 game series by 6/7 goals.