Beyond everything else though, Marner's God complex is the final nail in the coffin for me

I can agree with some of what you said. The part I disagree with is "progress vs Tampa" part. I don't think they progressed but they did get lucky.

The core guys absolutely need elevate their play in the playoffs especially when you see what their peers are doing.

You know the difference between Murphy in Toronto vs him in Detroit? In Detroit he didn't need to be the guy leading the D core but in Toronto he absolutely had be because the Leafs had nobody better.

It's a case of miscasting a very good player for a role that wasn't for him at his stage in his career.

Sort of. But also I think the coach was such a bad thing in the playoffs. Everyone knows how to shut Keefe's system down in the playoffs. It's not grit or lack of determination. It's a gameplan that fails.

A different coach will hopefully employ an offensive scheme that works better for TO.

I know people here doubt "insider takes" so feel free.to ignore if you want.

Been chatting with a few friends who work for the Leafs/MLSE.

From what I'm hearing they are considering four options:

1. Leave Shanny in charge and give him 2 seasons to see out his vision. They wouldn't let him trade any prospects of picks from the 2027 draft (or later). Idea is that he can run it back do whatever he feels will work and in 2 years if it's failing Matthews/Nylander/Marner are still young enough that their contracts can be moved and the team can tear it down.

2. Fire Shanny and leave Tre with the GM title but he and Pelley will split the President's job. Direction here would largely be a retool, moving out a few guys and try to win.

3. Blow it all up. There have been discussions about just a complete blow up including trading Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Rielly/Tavares. There are some people concerned that after Shanahan put his "team" in place he prioritized the people over the organization and that culture can't be changed without them all gone. This would essentially be what happened when Shanahan first came, wipe out the front office and start again.

4. Observation year. Pelley has only been on the job for 1.5 months. There is a thought that he might just let everything stay the same. Observe for a year then make decisions next year. This would mean no major moves without his approval, no big contracts, etc. but team stays the course for the most part unless he approves a big trade/UFA deal.

Seems like it's really all up in the air.

Not that one the one where he took shots at the Canadian market and media why he wanted out of CGY, that one he got flack for I believe it was NOV

There are vids on it

I think #4 - but throw fans a bone and change coach, OR #1. both are sort of kick the can down the road, as with #1 is Leafs do very well next year they might keep everything together, and if they do everythign poorly, the firings are accelerated 1 year.

I almost voted for #3 last year when all big 3 could still be moved. However someone mentioned MLSE and how bad all their other teams (TFC, Raptors) are doing so they need at least 1 playoff team to keep fans happy - so not happening now.

I think its #4 but in general Shanahan's deal expires the summer of 2025

I think MLSE and Pelley in general are just waiting for that and team results

If it works Shanny gets extended. If not no extension he's gone and Brad's Pres/GM you give Brad a tiny raise for 2 roles

#3 would have been stupid beyond belief. Blowing it up would have just been a panick move like NBA teams do without realizing one smart trade may have stabilized things like TOR did with Kawhi

After remembering who Marner's agent is (Darren Ferris) yea hes not getting traded

Darren Ferris has a habit of walking his clients right into free agency if the money is not right

Friedman even mentioned it

This may very well end up being a he stays here wracks up the points then either extends or walks for nothing

Now could the mold break and he move before absolutely but his agent and NMC are 2 big roadblocks rn

I was pretty shocked when Ray Ferraro said that blowing it all up was something he heard they were considering. You are the second person with some insider knowledge to say that. CJ also alluded to it, how the team had a poor attitude, had been taught the media was out to get them, etc. and that was top down and would need major changes to fix. Even them I'm not sure it makes sense to blow it all up now, I'd rather even bring back Burke or someone who would be happy having 2-3 years to just try and make this team (build around Matthews) work before we blow it up.

Yep and now Willy's standards have arguably gone higher

He's now an 11.5m guy not a 6.9m guy

3 goals in 4 games is good production but come next year if in 7 its 1 goal 5 assists not good


The one thing I find though of the big 4 they never all show up together

TBL series highlighted it. Was always 2 going at a time and we saw it along with the fact hey they were scoring

But they also had guys like ROR stepping up when needed and in game 3 and 4 he showed what he could do for us.


This is what this team lacked this series. Bertuzzi and Domi had moments but they also made to may ventures to the box giving BOS opportunities

This summer if they can find a ROR type would be happy

I remember ~20 years ago when Sundin had a NTC and Leafs wanted to rebuild. He wouldn't waive - and he "helped" the to 2 consecutive years of missing playoffs by a couple of points.
They should have told Sundin if he doesn't waive, they will play him 3rd line or take away any competent pieces on the roster so it's obvious he would never make the playoffs here.

Same way, If you want to rebuilt, you can just put nobody linemates with Marner and he won't rack up the points. That's incentive to waive the NTC.
If you want to win, you can't do that.
My early prediction is that he re-signs for the same $11.5M that Nylander got.

I feel its a combo of the Sundin situation and the Kessel or Kadri situation


Like man the argument to trade and not to trade is valid and it sucks

https://twitter.com/tmlfaninvan/status/1787886131515900389

Cause it just feels like its a lose/lose no matter what. You cant run the core 4 back but man the history of TOR running some of these guys out of town and them having more success elsewhere just feels like Marner would be next lul

Its gonna be interesting to see what happens

Pretty interesting read but yea I like Brewer's analysis on the 1-2-2 system

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/latest-news/marner-took-a-lot-of-heat-pair-of-former-maple-leafs-coaches-defend-mitch-marner-on-play-that-ended-torontos-stanley-cup-playoffs

Its funny how people be arguing which system's used but if it is hybridized that needs to change with the new HC going forward as hybridized systems barely work

Either stick to a true 1-3-1 system or a true 1-2-2 system

Yes, it was his responsibility... Keefe literally told the media it was when he said Marner was there to lock Pasta down...

And Bert wasn't even on the ice 😂 that entire OT, the Marner line was supposed to go out until Pastrnak scored... Such a dumb take...

Again, you blame everyone else except for Marner...

https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/auston-matthews-stats-vs-tampa-bay-playoffs

https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/nylander-stats-vs-tampa-bay-playoffs

https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/marner-stats-vs-tampa-bay-playoffs

https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask?q=tavares+stats+vs+tampa+bay+2021-22+to+2023-24+playoffs

All 4 did well vs Tampa and elevated their game...

Read the article.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/which-maple-leafs-were-to-blame-for-the-game-7-ot-goal-against/

I have played a lot of hockey in my 40+ years on this planet and watched even more and I won't for a second pretend I have the knowledge of the guy who wrote this article. Read it and for your own sake, try to curb your bias.

As I have mentioned, I am on board with trading Marner. I just think we need to keep our heads about it and you sir are so far down the "I hate Marner" rabbit hole that you can't see anything beyond that.

I'm referring to the one where he said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUnKQiR7Qws

Probs wishing it was TOR after game 1 lul

Swayman might take em to the SCF

You know what, I was wrong, Bertuzzi was on the ice... However, that change was him being on the ice for a long time and getting off hard... Nothing wrong with that... (unlike those lazy changes where they glide to the bench, as the Leafs have been far too familiar with)... And getting a supposed-to-be-fresher player on the ice on the back check...

Then the article made a solid breakdown... They did miss a few things however (kinda like the hook in the Ozone that would have caused a turnover if Willy played higher F3... But again, 1:30 out there... he wasn't thinking...

Swayman deserves the Conn Smythe trophy if they get to the SCF

If anything JT deserves more blame than Marner and Willy or Rielly. But Bertuzzi is the real culprit. Going behind the net there takes him further back and disrupted the change which cause confusion on who the new F1 was.

Look if you are going to go after Marner, you have to go after everyone who made mistakes. Bertuzzi failed in his assignment and it resulted in a goal against.

That is something that didn't get enough credit in round 1. Swayman is pretty stellar and Boston's D is deadly. This is why I was saying the Leafs needed to be able to win 2-1 games. Because scoring 3 or more on Boston is not at all an easy task. Not enough was said about that.

This has been the story of the Matthews era and im done excusing it to oh the goalie got hot.

We have seen it time and time again and yet we give these guys raises and stuck to the process rather than try and create balance

To name a few examples of why this excuse is getting old

Last year it was Bobrosky

Bubble Korpisalo

This year Swayman

Whose next Montembeault. Husso like its getting tiresome

Oh we need to win 2-1 no no we dont. If thats the case then why we got 4 double digit guys one scored 69 in regular season. Your setting it up to where your goalie has to get a shutout or only allow 1 every game or its game over. Not a viable strategy against everyone. With the firepower we have and the money going in 3-4goal wins should be the minimum with maybe one 2-1 win


This is where the argument for change comes in as if TOR is struggling to score in the playoffs why are we keeping 4 forwards making double digits.

Yes Swayman was good but with the firepower we had more than 2 goals should have went past him. Look what the Avs did to Hellebuyck whose probs the Vezina winner.

For sure but man just add him to list of goalie who stopped TOR incredible offense and leaves us dumb founded lul

Like I feel next to the big 4 argument this is another broken record