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CD282

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Forum: Armchair-GMWed. at 2:07 p.m.
Thread: Improvements Under the Cap
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>PurpleHippo</b></div><div>Again, in a year he was injured, you are trying to use stats for a player in a year which he was injured...

To again circle your point against you search him the year before with Torts, his TOI increased from 17:29 a/toi to 20:28a/toi throughout the season.
Stop using points that work DIRECTLY AGAINST your argument :tearsofjoy

But you're right, Torts does know more than us so I will agree that Torts is right in giving more responsibility to Risto.</div></div>
If you want to go back to 22-23, at least give meaningful data.

5v5 TOI
Flyers first 15 games: 15:18 (rank: 4th)
Flyers last 15 games: 15:15 (5th)

PP TOI
Flyers first 15 games: 0:06 (rank: 5th)
Flyers last 15 games: 1:57 (3rd)

PK TOI
Flyers first 15 games: 0:59 (rank: 5th)
Flyers last 15 games: 2.08 (2nd)

The last 15 games, Braun was injured so Ristolainen got a push on PK. However his PK performance was horrific so Torts didn't put him back on the PK unit at all this year.

I'm seeing no evidence that Torts trusted him more towards the end of the year than the beginning. In fact the opposite is true: his 5v5 defensive zone starts per sixty went from 13.72 at the beginning of the season to just 8.71 at the end. His QoC went from 36% TOI v Elites to just 19%.

But keep on keeping on with your narrative. I'm sure you seen him good.
Forum: Armchair-GMWed. at 9:36 a.m.
Thread: Off Season
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Pmatychuk13</b></div><div>I dont think im that for off though. Kane is obviously still a great player, scores 30 a year hes fast, physical and plays well in the playoffs. His ability on the ice is worth much more than a 3rd, but I do think teams would still be hesitant with all his antics. </div></div>
What antics are you referring to? He's been a model citizen in Edmonton, and is well liked as a teammate.

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Pmatychuk13</b></div><div>With Ceci I do think for the right fit you could maybe at the most get a 3rd but i think thats wishful thinking. He's a 3rd pair dman that makes 3.2 mil, to me thats too much.</div></div>
He's a top-4 defenseman and has been for 8 years, with 4 different teams and 7 different coaches. But I guess you know more than all those professional coaches, huh?
Forum: Armchair-GMTue. at 6:04 p.m.
Thread: Improvements Under the Cap
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>PurpleHippo</b></div><div>Your argument just circled itself but I'll keep that aside.
I don't, I just look into situations, player analysis and watch play rather than look at stats to form opinions.

Ceci is fine in a top-4 role, he would excel on our 3rd and our d-core as a whole would be better with a better dman beside Nurse.
Results do speak, thus why Desh TOI has risen throughout this year, because our coaches noted they needed to take a bit of the load off Ceci and because Desh has improved and earned the extra TOI.

I have never understood your opposition to upgrading our RHD, Ceci has been a good stop gap but there are upgrades we can make while keeping him.
Why the opposition?</div></div>

The old <em>"I watch hockey so I'm more informed than you"</em> argument, eh? Somehow it always comes down to that.

Firstly, I'm not even giving my opinion of the players, I'm simply telling you the facts of their usage and why it's relevant. Secondly, I <strong>guarantee</strong> that Torts knows far more about hockey than you do, and watches Ristolainen more than you too. I trust his opinion over mine and yours.

For the record I've never once opposed upgrading the RHD. I do oppose downgrading the RHD however, and the evidence indicates that Ristolainen is, in fact, a downgrade.
Forum: Armchair-GMTue. at 4:05 p.m.
Thread: Improvements Under the Cap
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>PurpleHippo</b></div><div>Yea but you not considering it situational or the situation around it is the issue, the coach gets what he's given and makes due, if you don't have anyone to slot in above him than yea he's top-4.

Ceci is normally top-4 TOI because the competition to take that spot from him lacks:
In Ottawa he slotted above weak competition in that lineup for several years, the biggest competition for that spot was in 18-19 when Demelo came who did actually take some ice time off Ceci.
Otherwise Ottawas best choice was Wideman over the span he was there, who sucks.
Then flipped to Toronto where he was the 2nd pair and was slotted over Holl at the start but actually moved to 3rd line under Holl by the end (switch happened in Dec-Jan) making him a 3rd pairing guy.
Then goes to Pitt where he was 3rd pair beneath Letang (1st) and Marino (2nd).
Then to Edmonton where a rookie Bouchard and defensive liability Barrie were our other RHD were the options, making him the obvious choice to go along with Nurse.

Taking his TOI and just stating "he's top-4 on every team thus is a good top-4 dman" is misleading, it doesn't give a picture at all of the situation.
Once you look into the situation and find out twice on bad defensive teams he lost that top-4 role it paints the actual picture.</div></div>
I wasn't taking just TOI, I was also looking at other factors also, which I mentioned.

And if teams continually don't have 2 RHD who can slot ahead of Ceci, maybe you need to rejig your mindset on what a top-4 RHD actually is. The fact is there aren't 64 right handed defensemen in the league that are better than Ceci. That makes him a top-4 defender.

Ceci has mostly kept his head above water playing top-4 too, unlike Ristolainen. You rightly point out that Ristolainen has played top-4 most of his career before this season, but failed to note that he's been overwhelmed on that role his entire career too. Sometimes you just have to look at results - the players eventually tell you what they are.

Ceci can (and does) play top-4, Ristolainen can't (and doesn't). It's that simple.
Forum: Armchair-GMTue. at 2:51 p.m.
Thread: Improvements Under the Cap
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>PurpleHippo</b></div><div>Situationally this season he played limited time due to injury and the injection of Drysdale, other years he has been top-4/first pair/#1.

I've seen it a few times on posts in regards to Ceci from you as well but never said, and I mean this with the best intention, TOI more an evaluation on a teams situation rather than a players worth in a league.
Using it to valuate a player directly is extremely misleading, EDM as an example, he plays top 4 minutes (and does fine) because we dont have RHD to replace him.</div></div>

There are many ways to tell whether a coach trusts a defenseman or not. TOI is one, but also OTF starts and QoC are key indicators too. You can also look at a player's most common partner (Zamula for Ristolainen) to get an idea where he plays. He's a 3rd pairing guy according to Philadelphia's coaching staff, whose opinion I respect greatly.

Also, Ristolainen's time with Drysdale barely overlapped, most of the time Ristolainen was healthy Drysdale wasn't on the team. So asserting Drysdale as the reason Ristolainen was on the 3rd pairing is a false narrative.

As for Ceci, he has played top-4 (as measured by TOI, OTF starts and QoC) for 8 years straight, for 4 different teams and 7 different coaches. I don't consider that to be situational at all.