Jesus christ man.

No thanks from Utah, Cooley is the franchise

think it's a fair trade, but leafs overpaying a little here. remove minten and i think it goes.

LMFAO. You are going to be so disappointed with his return. Utah wouldn't trade Cooley alone for that package, let alone add Lamoureux

a 44 point rookie is your franchise? i know he looks sweet, but gosh damn some of these poverty teams haven't experienced true great players. if they think guys like that are untouchable. it's a shame really. these poverty franchises deserve to know what it's like to have a real franchise player.

He was drafted in 2022 bro

You kidding? A future number 2-3 defensman PLUS a future elite top line center for an underachieving 11M player, a third pairing defensman and a future number 2-3 center??

i hate marner as a player, but let's be real. he's an elite elite elite top offnseive talent. cooley needs to prove it. so do minten and lamoureux. you're putting too much stock in the shiny new players. it's a tale as old as time. proven players over projected players all day every day. don't get me wrong, potential with cooley is high, lamoureux and minten have good potential (locking them in as 2-3 defenders and centers is wilddddddd)

19 year old showed flashes, 3 oa pick is going to get every opportunity to be just that. Had hawerchuk in the 80s, selanne possibly tkachuk in the 90s, not quite sure what your getting at, possibly the black hole from 2000 ish on, no disrespect to doan. Had 1 oa in early 80s hawerchuk and haven’t had one since so no number 1 picks gifted to them since the early 80s and a different city. Not quite sure what your getting at?

great season. looks like he could be very good in the league. but i'm just supposed to ignore the fact that many other players have had far better seasons than Cooley did at this point in his development. I think Marner is a soft player and i'd never want him, but hell, he even had a better year than cooley did at this point in development.

Salary cap era so team control is a factor, no guarantee at extending marner, blows up the cap if he is extended, and everybody and there dog, going to want bigger cash. Keller would be pissed with his bargain deal, so possibly blows up the room, just not a great fit outside of a video game.

Leafs fans would've told everyone back in 2019 or 20 that Rasmus Sandin was worth the moon and yet he's been nothing special so far, just your standard number 4 defensman on a wild card team. Lamoureux is at least as good as Sandin was back then, is a right hand shot which we all know many teams are looking for and is very very fast for his height (6 foot 7) and his weight(214).

And Cooley is one of the 5-6 best 20 and younger centers in the show (I'm not counting Celebrini here cause he's not drafted yet). Centers are, by definition, worth more than wingers. And Utah has little centers, they need every one they can get their hands on, and Cooley could be a PPG player as soon as next season.

the fans in Arizona haven't experienced generational players. better? and don't tell me Keith Tkachuk is a generational player.

On to Utah, when he was a 22 year old rookie captain scoring 50 and making the league minimum, and offersheet from Chicago, sure looked like it that year. But possibly didn’t work out that way, sure tough down low.

Ok, and? Why does that matter?

Cooley was well above PPG in the US university system playing against players that are older than him on average, and 44 points including 20 goals on a team that didn't come close to making the playoffs is still impressive for his age. And again, he was drafted in 2022.

leafs fans would have been absolutely out of their minds to think Sandin was worth the moon back in 19 or 20. But that tracks and shows why you should always value the proven players more than a projected player.

You could admit you might have gotten overexcited about some of the newer shiny players. i wouldn't hold it against you.

Marner put up 17 more points than cooley in his draft+2 year. Stop brining up cooley was drafted in 2022, when i'm literally comparing apples to apples with marner at similar stages of development. I'm not even trying to get locked in on marner. Cooley put up roughly the same stat line as Larkin in his draft+2 year. It's fair to say Cooley could develop the same as Larkin. Larkin a great player, but not more valuable than Marner.

My broader point is, cooley looks dope, but he is just not a player you fawn over and go that's it, he's our franchise defining guy. after. one. year.

Not sure why you say "you" since I'm no Leafs fans.

And as for the "proven players" vs the "projected players", you'd be right if they were closer in age. Marner just turned 27 while Cooley just turned 20. For a team like Utah whose window will not open until the latter years of the 2020s, Marner is simply too old to be a fit. If he were, say, 23, he'd be a good fit. And again, Utah badly needs centers, as they don't have many.

Just read my last reply.

And as for Larkin vs Marner, I take Larkin first. He has a lower AAV and is more important to the Wings than Marner is to the Leafs. And he's a center, which are, on average, more valuable than wingers

read your past post as well and replying in here to consolidate.

im no leafs fan either. i meant "you" in this convo. i think you, as an individual, might be overvaluing the newer players. keep in mind there are also many examples of players flaming out. there's risk to those younger players. to turn down a true offensive talent like Marner, you better be damn sure the kid you're keeping will be that franchise guy. Maybe that guy doesn't even turn out to be a larkin. PLD put up the same stat line that cooley just did in his draft+2 year. PLD hasn't become that franchise guy you could have said he was back when he had that season. Or even worse, what if he's like an Alexander Daige who put up 37p in 47 games. there's risk here. cooley looks awesome, but I think we normally value proven guys for a reason. we've all seen the flops when we buy into the hype early.

Just to put this all into perspective.

Cooley: Drafted 2022 end of 2023-24 season he has 44points
Marner: Drafted 2015 end of 2016-17 season he has 61 points (and missed 9 games)

If you think the guy who has played the last 3 seasons at a 100 point pace isn't more valuable then idk what to tell you.

Yeah. We poverty franchises like Utah and Anaheim should know what it's like to have not one but TWO real franchise players and $h!t results since Anaheim won the Stanley Cup almost 20 years ago.

Nothing like a homer.


But that's all naifs like this know.

I'm not overvaluing the new players lol. I'm really not.

I'm simply remarking that Cooley is almost a decade younger than Marner and played a position Utah desperately needs. Utah already has plenty of great wingers (Keller, Crouse, Guenther, Schmaltz), they don't need more. They need centers, and once Cooley develops into a number 1 center (probably by the end of 25-26) this problem will have been fixed in a major part.

Read my last reply, posted a minute or two ago

I know someone in this thread said Cooley is the franchise...which is crazy. But to also say cooley will be an elite center is still a stretch. he looks dope and is tracking great. prob has a good chance to be elite. but in this trade scenario, the leafs are def giving up the greater value in general. two proven players? One that is also proven elite at offense. I understand organizationally, the yotes might not value Marner (as a winger) more than having a center. but if you pass up marner for cooley....oh boy that's a big risk since cooley's career could go anywhere.