Quoting: ChampEddy
So much is wrong with what you just said I don`t really know where to start so I`m just gonna make a list of points.
1. Comparing Zohorna and Chara is insane. I`m willing to bet you have never watched Zohorna play a hockey game in your life. He is not a fighter. He has never been in a fight. How did Jamie Oleksiak work out for the Pens in that role when they threw him in against Wilson? Not good. Deslauriers actually beat up Wilson in a fight. And he is more skilled than you give him credit for. He would be a beloved addition to this team and I am willing to bet a lot of money that Sidney Crosby and the rest of the team would agree. This team gets pushed around. The "just play" mantra that the team has went with for the past couple years is proving to be a disaster now. You need some pushback. Look at the last 3 cup champions. Big, strong, tough players. Many teams went way too far in abandoning that element of the game and are now realizing the mistake. Fighting is making a comeback in the NHL. It is a much needed role on any team. Tom Wilson`s don`t grow on trees. They are a rare breed. IMO Wilson is one of the most valuable players in the NHL. Deslauriers can be the Penguins answer for now. He is much better than any Penguins player currently in the bottom 6 with the injuries right now.
2. I would take Duncan Keith over MP for this year and next. That is the only thing that matters. I don`t care if MP is going to be good in 8 years. Irrelevant to the Pens right now. And again, this is just one option. The point is that moving him is very clearly the right move right now in order to facilitate other moves.
3. Yes, Getzlaf would be a great pickup for this year. Would be great on the Left side wall on the PP as well. This will all depend on a MP trade and/or LTIR for Malkin. I`m not bringing in Getzlaf to fight. Even though if it came down to it I think he would, depending on the opponent. He brings grit and toughness in other areas of the game though. As well as playmaking ability. Plus a RH shot center would be a good add. Leadership qualities. Relationship with Sid. History with Burke. If the cap can work and ANH is reasonable on the price this may end up happening.
4. Ovechkin I think has had one actual fight in the NHL against a much smaller 18 year old. He is not a fighter. One of the greatest hitters in the league, but not a fighter. Not a big knock on him, he is there to score goals, not fight. But that was a bad example by you.
5. The Pens are going to get tougher whether you like it or not to be completely honest. I know in ACGM world you may not like that. And you probably don`t see the value in it because you haven`t been involved in high-level competitive hockey. But I can assure you, the Penguins and it`s players will be much better off by bringing in toughness. Do they need to dress 5 goons like the 80s? NO. But bringing in 1 or 2 players who can protect the stars, stand up for their teammates and inflict some hurt on the other team is going to do this team wonders and it is probably a matter of weeks until they do this. Maybe Zohorna can be one of those guys. But I don`t think asking a European guy who has never been in a fight before and has never played in the NHL to take on that kind of role is fair or realistic and he would probably get dropped. We`ll see. I hope they give him a chance in the bottom 6 and see what he can bring to the team. Apparently his skating is better than expected.
6. Again, the only fallacy is that toughness isn`t needed to win. There are many different definitions and variables when talking about NHL toughness but regardless all aspects are needed to win. This is not disputable. This is 100% fact. Ask any coach or GM and almost every player in the league. No, you don`t need a team of goons. It isn`t the 80`s where they pick up steel workers in the summer to come throw knuckles. A player or two who bring that type of element to a team, who are good enough to compete skill-wise, is a gem. Deslauriers and others like them would not be here if they were as bad as you say. He is a fine player and happens to be extremely valuable because of what he is able to do with his size, toughness and fists. Go watch him fight Wilson or other top guys in the league. He scored a natural hat trick a year or two ago as well. He was PPG in juniors, as a dman. He is absolutely better than the entire Penguins current bottom 6 before even bringing in to the conversation his fighting ability and toughness. Trying to say that bringing him onto this team would not benefit the Penguins or their players is asinine and is the type of comment I would only expect from a PeeWee hockey mom who doesn`t want her precious little boy to get hurt. I`m so sick of that train of thought. Go ask any NHL player their opinion. End of story.
You come off with such arrogance in your comments but truthfully it`s quite clear you don`t have much of a realistic view of how hockey works or what it takes to win.
lets break your novel down.
1. I never said he could play hockey. What part of low skilled goon don't you understand. It's pretty clear that was not the comparison I was making. I hate to break it to you but Deslauriers can't play hockey either. Just like Reaves couldn't. So I don't know what the hell you are even trying to talk about here.
This idea that someone who is 6'7 230+lbs can't fight is absurd. If you want to talk about Jamie O lets have an honest conversation about it. Lets talk about how he didn't want to do it. That he was tired of that role here and being the only guy here to do that, and was sick of the GM shooting his mouth of getting him into them, which was really pissing him off .Which is why he's gone now. He wasn't someone trying to pick that fight when he basically got jumped and blamed the whole thing on the F ing GM. Those are some facts. I don't even know why you try to bring that up. Yes Jamie O is pretty decent at dropping the gloves, not because he's some great fighter but because he's big.
So please be more honest about what happened there. The second he was healthy he was traded right back to DAL. Because he didn't fill his role, nor did he want any part of that. He just wanted to play hockey. That's fine.
But don't come telling me, a guy sitting in the AHL making jack ****, with no path can't be convinced to come in and drop the gloves. Especially saying he'll "do everything I can to make the NHL." If it's the difference between making 70k a year and 1 million I'm sure he'll learn what his path is if that's what they wanted it to be.
Fact is you don't know jack **** about the guy. You didn't watch the Czech leagues he came from. You don't know if he dropped gloves there or not, or at any other level. You are over here assuming he's spent his whole time playing hockey never dropping gloves with anyone. That's a pretty big assumption. The truth is most smaller guys aren't going to go out there and pick **** with him, that's just the truth. They know that's bad news. Because it doesn't matter how good you think someone is as a fighter. A smaller 6 foot guy isn't dropping gloves when they are giving up 6 inches and 40 lbs.
Not everyone on that ice is tom wilson. Who clearly has a penthouse in your head. Most teams don't have guys who are 6'4 220lbs who drop gloves. Especially one's that run around acting like idiots. Those are facts. A lot of those guys don't want anything to do with that either. They seen guys walk out with CTE. Their simply being on the ice is a reminder to some of the smaller idiots.
Lets stop pretending he couldn't fill that role if he wanted paid to. It's just absurd. There are plenty of guys who are big, can't fight and do it. Ask Tinordi. He can't fight for ****. But he's willing to for the money.
It simply isn't 1980s hockey anymore. Most teams don't have that guy on their team anymore. because it's not effective But you are obsessed with it because of 1 or 2 teams. And if you don't think he would put up a fight against a lot of those guys you are kidding yourself. He's not a small child, he's a grown man.
2 Keith sucks, he's old and slow and that contract is horrible. Period.
3 I glad you realize he won't come here to play the kind of role you think he's going to play. Much like Brassard didn't. Everyone wanted him to come in here and play that game. He was a marshmallow.
No one want's to be the guy here who does it by themselves and these older guys just don't want to be that guy anymore period. Which is why Keith and Getz just aren't going to be it. Much like Thornton isn't in TOR. TOR wanted him to be, but you don't see him out there being that. He want's to be a "skilled" player.
4 OV has more than 1 fight. Are you kidding me. It's like you don't even know the guy. He's had multiple fights in the NHL, in Russia. The only difference is the whole team tries to save his ass when people go after him as they can't have him getting punched in the head repeatedly.
But lets not pretend he's ever been one to shy away from that. But he's 36 now and looking at guys like clowns when they expect that from him. Believe me when he lays dirty hits he knows when he has it coming. He's had to deal with it multiple times. To sit here and act like his only fight was against an 18 year old is just F ing absurd.
5. The penguins are never going to put a pure goon on the ice. They have done that, it doesn't work. Reaves didn't stop it from happening. Nor will any other goon. Yes, they can't do the 5'9 mop forward thing. Clearly, that doesn't work and most people know midget wingers are not the way forward. Yes they like guys who can hit and also play hockey like Tanev. But bringing in low skilled goons is never going to be what this team does. It simply doesn't work and it doesn't solve the problem to think that you have to "get" the other teams goon. The fact that you don't get the reason these things happen is part of the problem. You don't stop the problem going after the other teams goon. You don't have to knock Wilson out to check his behavior. If you want to check his behavior, take Varan through the boards and leave him on a stretcher. You target their better players much like they do to you. And you don't need a low skilled goon to do that. Especially one that gets exposed on the ice when he's out there.
You can actually have guys who are good hockey players do that. It's a mentality. Not a "he's tough" issue. You don't see Wilson trying to target the biggest guys on the ice. Instead he's out there trying to take out the guys giving the team problems without hitting the star player which will draw outrage. Because if he took out a Crosby the league would pound him into dust. He'd be done.
But they don't have that mentality. That starts with the coach and then goes to the leadership of the team. Which just wants to "play hockey." Like many teams do.
So stop thinking the answer to Tom WIlson is going after Tom WIlson, it's not. You lay Vanak or Backstrom out and then the message is sent.
You are over here thinking you win, by going after the other teams goon. I hate to break it to you, while they target your better players and you target their goon, you lose every time.
It's clear that between the two of us, one of us doesn't understand how hockey is played nor ever played it. But that person isn't me, it's you.
So keep your low skilled goon, they don't need him. Nor do they need older guys who just don't want to play that way in their upper 30s.
If you want guys who will go out there in the scrum and mix it up, go find younger players to do it, they are way more willing to be that guy.
If you want to stop the goonery, go target the other teams difference makers. You don't go after their goon. Believe me, when their top 6 wingers are out for 4-8 weeks because of their goons BS, the actual leaders of the team will tell them the **** needs to end because they can't win games that way.
Because the league will have a problem if you go after OV, but if you knock 30 goal Varan out for 2 months, they ain't gonna say ****.
That's not an issue with "toughness" that's an issue with the coach and team leadership and frankly a dumb fan base, who thinks the answer is "get wilson" or "get whoever" who lives in your head.
the penguisn aren't trading MP for Keith.
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