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Forum: NHL TradesFri at 12:18 pm
Forum: NHL TradesFri at 10:05 am
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Capitalfail67</b></div><div>I’m confused on how it’s a bad take? Horny was on pace for 50 points 27 goals. Last 3 years he was on the exact same pace. “Decline” isn’t really how I would describe him. Maybe you see him as diminishing goods or overpaid but he added a lot of things that the team was missing. Either way at best ... at the very best this is a okay trade. More than likely you traded a 50 point RW for a younger JJ who makes more money. This trade didn’t address a single need. Adding a 4+ million 3Lhd who is known for turnovers....traded a guy who was great in front on the net and added 20-25 goals a year. Yeah I understand why penguin fans are optimistic (what choice do you have) but don’t try to sell this as horny sucks and this kid sucks less bc that ain’t it</div></div>

saying Horny was a 50 point player doesn't really tell the whole story. You keep ignoring that part.
Like I said, he's not a top 6 player anymore, he's way to slow. Neither Malkin or Crosby wanted someone that slow on their line while they are trying to run up the rush. That was more than clear. He slowed those lines down, that's why he got dropped to the 3rd line.
He also never really clicked on a 3rd pairing, the lack of foot speed was evident. You keep looking at goals and points, but his corsi has dropped like a rock. He use to be a 56% corsi player on the penguins. Last year was the 3rd or 4th straight year of decline down to 48%. For a guy who got 50+% Ozone starts. It was also the first year his corsi events for were lower than his corsi events against.
Those are all bad signs for an aging player.

Horny had his day on this team. But that was when the league was a lot slower and he didn't stick out as much being a bit younger.

There are simply truths to his game. He's not a great defender, in a defensive role in the bottom 6. He's not great moving through the neutral zone and he doesn't really have the ability to skate. You start adding it up and you realize how he was not fitting in.

I'm not judging any of this based on matheson at all. That's all purely on Horny. removing him was addition by subtraction just to start.

matheson is what he is. Now we can say we won't know what he'll be like on the penguins but truth is, you don't have to know that to judge this.
If they use this as the excuse to finally get rid of JJ than can you really look at it as a "bad move"
He can be no worse.
I mean if you ask any penugins fan what they want their defense to look like.

I'm pretty sure you get a 175% B response.

If he plays well, he's probably gone in the expansion draft given there isn't a lot there to choose form and a good defenseman would probably get picked up. So in that case the contract doesn't mean much.
And if he struggles, it's still better than JJ and Schultz. Who were both awful in their own end. matheson may turn the puck over, but at least he's not incompetent defending.
You can pull the puck out of his hands. Many teams do that. Look at Chara as he aged, they always had McAvoy move the puck when paired with him.

That eliminates the biggest issue with matheson . Especially since the whole penguins defense is designed to move the puck from the right point. AKA Letang, Marino, Schultz.

So yeah, moving a 5.3 million winger who is 34, was obviously declining, for a guy who is an upgrade in the defensive end isn't a bad move. Not nearly what you make it to be.
Forum: NHL TradesFri at 3:32 am
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Capitalfail67</b></div><div>Lmfao horny was on pace for 50 points and 27 goals. Lol he was still a really good player and this trade absolutely is a massive loss. You said he’s a top 4 LHD ?!?! Based off what? You delusional opinion? Math is a terrible D man. Is there potential? Yeah but why risk a 50 point “dime a dozen lmfao” rw for a D man that you could have got for a 7th round pick. Guess what!?! FLA thought they would have to pay to dump this guy. Lol instead they got a 50 point forward. What did you get? A 26 year old cone? Congrats on the win. Lol</div></div>

come on man, this is a bad take.
No one wanted to play with Horny in the top 6, he was too slow. He single handedly helped shut those lines down by not being able to keep up. The square peg in a round hole was painfully obvious. I've been saying that for the last 2 years. The guy is in decline.
Yeah he got some goals, hanging around the net like he does. But that isn't the game they want to play. They want to run and gun on the ice. I'm not saying that is a smart move at this point but it is what it is. That's why they are trying to bring in more speed. Some times the production you see in stats doesn't tell the whole story. He clearly didn't fit the top 6 here. And while I think he still had some value, that contract and age weighted it down. He belongs on a team that plays a slower cycle game. He might not weight down a top line there.
I'm not sold on the penguins offense as a strategy. Going down ice, getting one shot and then coming back the other way isn't a great game plan. At some point you need a cycle. But it is the horse they choose to ride on, to run the puck back and forth up and down the ice and open the game up to a faster pace. Frankly I think that explains a lot of their issues. But hey, they have to figure that out on their own.

While I don't think matheson is some top 4LD, I don't know where people get this extremely bad idea from, I also don't think he could be any worse than Schultz who was awful and JJ who I think is out the door. Given the fact that Hornqvist was 5.3 million in basically dead cap, at worst it's a swap. I know I know, the contract is longer. Who care. Defense is easier to move anyway especially when the player is much younger.

What I do think is that if he plays well, he won't be on the penguins for more than 1 year. He'll be gone to Seattle and that will be that.
Don't think the penguins can't get that done. Any team can turn a guy around for 1 year. That's all it takes to move him.
1 year of this guy for Horny isn't all that bad. I have no problem trading Horny for a useful piece they lose in a year. Mainly because they needed to get that contract out.

Now if he plays bad that's a different story. But look at it this way. If they move JJ out, they let Schultz walk, and they move dead cap in Horny. You just lost 14 million in bad cap. And you only brought back 4.9.
It's not horrible. Yes it's a gamble he plays well, but if he does, you moved out 14 million in bad cap, and brought back 0. That's a good off season. He's only like 1 million more than JJ. And if bringing him in means that's the excuse for moving JJ out. I'm not complaining.
Forum: NHL TradesThu at 6:02 pm
lot of bad takes on this trade. Lets just clear the record.

A. Honrqvist needed to be traded 2 years ago. He does not fit the penguins, it has been more than obvious.
His contract out is addition by subtraction. No matter how you view it and I don't think that was an easy contract to dump.
I actually predicted him to FL earlier. FL fans threw a fit, but it was a clear choice. Hoffman and Dadanov both going out the door. They need RW help. The question is do they really get it. The penguins needed to move him. That's all there is on that. So moving him to start is a win.

B. The writing is on the wall for JJ now. I don't think this trade happens unless that was already figured out. Be it buyout or trade he's gone. No need for 16 million on 4 LD.
Having said that, as I had also said earlier. POJ will not play a single game for the penguins. I will hold to that. Expect him to be moved out too.
You want a candidate for that trade. Hello TOR. JJ and POJ, to TOR. Probably something small coming back to the penguins. aka draft pick. POJ would be cheap LD on a capable young player with control, TOR easily has the capital to buy out JJ or bury him. TOR is cap strapped for a few years with a flat cap. Getting a guy on league min who can play LD for them is a win.

C. lot of talk on Matheson, be it good or bad. But remember one thing. RW are a dime a dozen, which makes RW with big contracts that are in decline hard to move.
Defense is always in need. People have railed on moving defensemen for some time. They said the same crap about Guddy. It would take a 1st to move his contract. He went to ANA cost nothing.
It is much much much easier to move defense if need be. Especially when they are young and have shown talent. Matheson numbers last year were not that bad. They weren't great but they were not that bad. There were much worse defense men in the league last year. Someone will always take a run at a younger defense man. There simply aren't enough of them. He clearly held some value even if people wanted to rip him for his 1 really bad season.
I will say one thing, he can be no worse than JJ or Schultz. He will also not play the RD side. If need be, they will be able to move him. Because injuries happen, and teams are always looking for defense.
If he plays even remotely well, they probably lose him to Seattle next year. So any issues of the contract, will be mute. As there won't be much available in the forwards or goalies if they trade Murray.

D GMJR has made some dumb moves in the past, this is the least of the stupid things he has done. They will bury Sceviour in the minors. It's one year. The rest of this trade is probably gone at expansion draft and will be an after thought. We won't be saying that about some of the other deals.
It's more than just a lateral move here. Do I think both teams won, no. FL got a player who will be hard to move if he doesn't perform. And truth is, he's too slow. He was to slow to be on the penguins, and it will show again in FL. Even if Matheson plays bad. He can still skate well enough to bounce around the league.
My question is, did he waive the M-NTC.
Forum: Armchair-GMSep 2 at 5:26
Forum: Armchair-GMSep 1 at 8:15
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Propeller09</b></div><div>That is 100% false. He is a top 3-10 goalie in the league. You didn't hear anyone call him out.

I don't think it was a good look, but he still has value. He is still going to win the Vezina.

I agree he didn't help his value, I also think it depends on the reason. He could go to a non traditional market and be just fine. He couldn't go to Tor, NY, MTL or somewhere like that, but Colorado, he would make them better. instantly. McKinnon isn't going to care he flaked on the Bruins. It's not how it works.

Carolina could work.
LA (quick deal?)

Personally, I think the Bruins will ask him to waive, they will get a deal and he will retire because he probably doesn't want to move and they move back to Finland and he plays in the SEL or lives off the 50m+ he's made.</div></div>

You didn't hear anyone call him out because the vets know better than to do that and they still run the room. But don't think for one second they weren't all pissed.
Chara probably his last year, cup hopes dashed on one dumb decision.

Don't think other teams don't notice this. No one knows how next season is going to play out yet. Does he sit again?
Why would any team take that risk. None would. It's not worth the effort.
He sold his team out. Other teams won' t give him the chance to do the same.
Every other player out there put them self at risk for the good of the league. Even Domi, who has health issues got off his ass and played.
He choose not to. Other people will notice.