Duchene and more...

RFA	YEARS	CAP HIT
Zibanejad, Mika	5	$5,250,000
Lindberg, Oscar	1	$900,000
Fast, Jesper	3	$1,500,000
Clendening, Adam	1	$900,000
Pirri, Brandon	1	$900,000

UFA	YEARS	CAP HIT
Smith, Brendan	3	$3,750,000
Shattenkirk, Kevin	6	$6,250,000
Hrivík, Marek	6	$650,000
McIlrath, Dylan	1	$650,000

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
23	$76,000,000	$70,711,111	$0	$2,850,000	$5,288,889

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Nash, Rick $3,900,000$3,900,000 LW, RW M-NTC, NMC UFA - 1	Duchene, Matt $6,000,000$6,000,000 RW, C UFA - 2	Zuccarello, Mats $3,150,000$3,150,000 RW, LW UFA - 2
Kreider, Chris $4,625,000$4,625,000 LW UFA - 3	Zibanejad, Mika $5,250,000$5,250,000 C UFA - 5	Buchnevich, Pavel $925,000$925,000 LW, RW, C UFA - 2
Vesey, Jimmy $925,000$925,000 ($2,850,000$3M) RW, LW UFA - 1	Hayes, Kevin $2,600,000$2,600,000 C UFA - 1	Miller, J.T. $2,750,000$2,750,000 C, LW, RW UFA - 1
Fast, Jesper $1,500,000$1,500,000 RW UFA - 3		Grabner, Michael $1,650,000$1,650,000 LW, RW UFA - 1
	Lindberg, Oscar $900,000$900,000 LW, C UFA - 2	Hrivík, Marek $650,000$650,000 C, LW UFA - 1
	Pirri, Brandon $900,000$900,000 RW, LW UFA - 1

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
McDonagh, Ryan $4,700,000$4,700,000 LD M-NTC UFA - 2	Shattenkirk, Kevin $6,250,000$6,250,000 RD UFA - 4	Lundqvist, Henrik $8,500,000$8,500,000 G NMC UFA - 4
Skjei, Brady $925,000$925,000 LD UFA - 1	Smith, Brendan $3,750,000$3,750,000 LD/RD, LW UFA - 4	Raanta, Antti $1,000,000$1,000,000 G UFA - 1
Staal, Marc $5,700,000$5,700,000 LD NMC UFA - 4	Clendening, Adam $900,000$900,000 RD UFA - 1
	McIlrath, Dylan $650,000$650,000 RD UFA - 2

Mar. 8, 2017 at 12:02 p.m.

#1

redw1n9s

Joined: Mar. 2016

Posts: 1,911

Likes: 572

Not even close for Duchene. Not even close.

Mar. 8, 2017 at 12:27 p.m.

#2

F50marco

Joined: May 2015

Posts: 19,635

Likes: 6,768

Quoting: redw1n9s

Not even close for Duchene. Not even close.

Just to reiterate for you. Not so much the value being off even though it is, its what the Avs are looking for that is really not being met here.

Mr_cap liked this.

Mar. 8, 2017 at 12:31 p.m.

#3

redw1n9s

Joined: Mar. 2016

Posts: 1,911

Likes: 572

Quoting: F50marco

Quoting: redw1n9s

Not even close for Duchene. Not even close.

Just to reiterate for you. Not so much the value being off even though it is, its what the Avs are looking for that is really not being met here.

Haha what does that even mean? Either way, it's not close.

Mar. 8, 2017 at 12:40 p.m.

#4

DiehardRedWingsFan58

Banned

Joined: Jun. 2016

Posts: 33,053

Likes: 8,999

Yeah Sakic would want the Rangers #1 D prospect at least plus a 1st hardly call Graves the Rangers #1 D prospect Brady Skjei would probably need to be involved here. This isn't even close for Matt Duchene.

Mar. 8, 2017 at 12:45 p.m.

#5

F50marco

Joined: May 2015

Posts: 19,635

Likes: 6,768

Quoting: redw1n9s

Quoting: F50marco

Just to reiterate for you. Not so much the value being off even though it is, its what the Avs are looking for that is really not being met here.

Haha what does that even mean? Either way, it's not close.

Define not even close? Value wise, the trade is "close" even if I personally wouldn't do it either. That's why I reiterated for you since your comment was non constructive. Its not close in terms of what the Avs are looking for not in terms of value.

Stepan has 10 less points then Duchene has over the last 5 years. He's only 500K more expensive. While one is unanimously "better" one side needed to add to bring equality to the value each way. NYR did in this case. Once again this is just in terms of value straight up. Not looking at needs which was the point of my original comment.

Mar. 8, 2017 at 1:03 p.m.

#6

redw1n9s

Joined: Mar. 2016

Posts: 1,911

Likes: 572

Quoting: F50marco

Define not even close? Value wise, the trade is "close" even if I personally wouldn't do it either. That's why I reiterated for you since your comment was non constructive. Its not close in terms of what the Avs are looking for not in terms of value.

Stepan has 10 less points then Duchene has over the last 5 years. He's only 500K more expensive. While one is unanimously "better" one side needed to add to bring equality to the value each way. NYR did in this case. Once again this is just in terms of value straight up. Not looking at needs which was the point of my original comment.

You cannot compare Duchene to Stepan. You just cannot. Duchene is a top 3 pick and an elite player in the NHL. He's just on a bad team. Stepan is a middle 6 center; he's good but he's not comparable in any way. The Rangers are adding value with a 5th? And a good prospect? This is not even close - in terms of value or what the Avs are looking for.

Mar. 8, 2017 at 1:37 p.m.

#7

F50marco

Joined: May 2015

Posts: 19,635

Likes: 6,768

Quoting: redw1n9s

You cannot compare Duchene to Stepan. You just cannot. Duchene is a top 3 pick and an elite player in the NHL. He's just on a bad team. Stepan is a middle 6 center; he's good but he's not comparable in any way. The Rangers are adding value with a 5th? And a good prospect? This is not even close - in terms of value or what the Avs are looking for.

Not comparable at all? I'm not a Stepan supporter at all but I can willingly see comparables where your choosing not to. Both centres. Both number 1 centres on their respective teams with Mack taking over for Duchene now. both put up multiple 50+ pt seasons. Both can play in all situations. Both same age. Both same height and weight approx.....etc fracking etc.

I love Duchene and I agree he is the better player between the two but considering his numbers over his career are not that spectacular and the fact that a team is actively looking at trading him even though he's still in his prime goes to show that he does not hold water with some of the true number 1 centres in the league. He's a notch below. That's still really really good but he is being over hyped. Stepan is not as good as Duchene. I agree with this but is he really that far off? The stats don't show that. The minutes used don't show that. Contract doesn't show that. The underlying numbers don't show that.

So tell where exactly can you show me that he is so far off its not even close? You can't. You just like jump on the Duchene is the best player in the league bandwagon like so many else do.

Once again this trade does not make sense for the AVS. They are looking for defensive help not a replacement for Duchene so this trade would only prove to be lateral at best. Which serves no purpose. But if we're talking just value intensive purposes, yeah its not that far off. Its closer then you think. That doesn't change the fact that the Avs shouldn't do it.

Mar. 8, 2017 at 1:50 p.m.

#8

Mr_cap

NBABound

Joined: Oct. 2016

Posts: 5,655

Likes: 1,392

Quoting: F50marco

Quoting: redw1n9s

You cannot compare Duchene to Stepan. You just cannot. Duchene is a top 3 pick and an elite player in the NHL. He's just on a bad team. Stepan is a middle 6 center; he's good but he's not comparable in any way. The Rangers are adding value with a 5th? And a good prospect? This is not even close - in terms of value or what the Avs are looking for.

Not comparable at all? I'm not a Stepan supporter at all but I can willingly see comparables where your choosing not to. Both centres. Both number 1 centres on their respective teams with Mack taking over for Duchene now. both put up multiple 50+ pt seasons. Both can play in all situations. Both same age. Both same height and weight approx.....etc fracking etc.

I love Duchene and I agree he is the better player between the two but considering his numbers over his career are not that spectacular and the fact that a team is actively looking at trading him even though he's still in his prime goes to show that he does not hold water with some of the true number 1 centres in the league. He's a notch below. That's still really really good but he is being over hyped. Stepan is not as good as Duchene. I agree with this but is he really that far off? The stats don't show that. The minutes used don't show that. Contract doesn't show that. The underlying numbers don't show that.

So tell where exactly can you show me that he is so far off its not even close? You can't. You just like jump on the Duchene is the best player in the league bandwagon like so many else do.

Once again this trade does not make sense for the AVS. They are looking for defensive help not a replacement for Duchene so this trade would only prove to be lateral at best. Which serves no purpose. But if we're talking just value intensive purposes, yeah its not that far off. Its closer then you think. That doesn't change the fact that the Avs shouldn't do it.

Yeah totally agree with you here. This trade gives no purpose for the Avs because of the fact that they are just replacing Duchene here and would not make them any closer to a playoff spot then they are now. I think that him saying Duchene is better than Stepan is because Duchene has more skill and flash but he's not looking at the total package between the two.

Skill= Duchene
Two-way play= Stepan

It doesn't matter what pick you are or if you weren't even drafted, all it matters is if the player is NHL ready and if he's a superstar in the league then how good is he.

Mar. 8, 2017 at 1:53 p.m.

#9

F50marco

Joined: May 2015

Posts: 19,635

Likes: 6,768

Quoting: Mr_cap

Quoting: F50marco

Not comparable at all? I'm not a Stepan supporter at all but I can willingly see comparables where your choosing not to. Both centres. Both number 1 centres on their respective teams with Mack taking over for Duchene now. both put up multiple 50+ pt seasons. Both can play in all situations. Both same age. Both same height and weight approx.....etc fracking etc.

I love Duchene and I agree he is the better player between the two but considering his numbers over his career are not that spectacular and the fact that a team is actively looking at trading him even though he's still in his prime goes to show that he does not hold water with some of the true number 1 centres in the league. He's a notch below. That's still really really good but he is being over hyped. Stepan is not as good as Duchene. I agree with this but is he really that far off? The stats don't show that. The minutes used don't show that. Contract doesn't show that. The underlying numbers don't show that.

So tell where exactly can you show me that he is so far off its not even close? You can't. You just like jump on the Duchene is the best player in the league bandwagon like so many else do.

Once again this trade does not make sense for the AVS. They are looking for defensive help not a replacement for Duchene so this trade would only prove to be lateral at best. Which serves no purpose. But if we're talking just value intensive purposes, yeah its not that far off. Its closer then you think. That doesn't change the fact that the Avs shouldn't do it.

Yeah totally agree with you here. This trade gives no purpose for the Avs because of the fact that they are just replacing Duchene here and would not make them any closer to a playoff spot then they are now. I think that him saying Duchene is better than Stepan is because Duchene has more skill and flash but he's not looking at the total package between the two.

Skill= Duchene
Two-way play= Stepan

It doesn't matter what pick you are or if you weren't even drafted, all it matters is if the player is NHL ready and if he's a superstar in the league then how good is he.

Lol yup. My only point was that saying its not even close is a little harsh. Stepan is a good player, not as good as Duchene granted but not even close? That's just going overboard. If you make up the difference between the 2 with a prospect and a pick I think you've come pretty close to equalizing the value both ways. Not to mention that Duchene is a free agent in 2 years. He may go to free agency and test the market and cost 7-8M on another team while Stepan has a couple more years after this one.

Mar. 8, 2017 at 2:44 p.m.

#10

Mr_cap

NBABound

Joined: Oct. 2016

Posts: 5,655

Likes: 1,392

Quoting: F50marco

Quoting: Mr_cap

Yeah totally agree with you here. This trade gives no purpose for the Avs because of the fact that they are just replacing Duchene here and would not make them any closer to a playoff spot then they are now. I think that him saying Duchene is better than Stepan is because Duchene has more skill and flash but he's not looking at the total package between the two.

Skill= Duchene
Two-way play= Stepan

It doesn't matter what pick you are or if you weren't even drafted, all it matters is if the player is NHL ready and if he's a superstar in the league then how good is he.

Lol yup. My only point was that saying its not even close is a little harsh. Stepan is a good player, not as good as Duchene granted but not even close? That's just going overboard. If you make up the difference between the 2 with a prospect and a pick I think you've come pretty close to equalizing the value both ways. Not to mention that Duchene is a free agent in 2 years. He may go to free agency and test the market and cost 7-8M on another team while Stepan has a couple more years after this one.

Yah they are close, in terms of value. But then again, Avs need(s) are totally aside from that.

Mar. 8, 2017 at 2:55 p.m.

#11

F50marco

Joined: May 2015

Posts: 19,635

Likes: 6,768

Quoting: Mr_cap

Quoting: F50marco

Lol yup. My only point was that saying its not even close is a little harsh. Stepan is a good player, not as good as Duchene granted but not even close? That's just going overboard. If you make up the difference between the 2 with a prospect and a pick I think you've come pretty close to equalizing the value both ways. Not to mention that Duchene is a free agent in 2 years. He may go to free agency and test the market and cost 7-8M on another team while Stepan has a couple more years after this one.

Yah they are close, in terms of value. But then again, Avs need(s) are totally aside from that.

Yup. Exactly what I reiterated in my original comment.

Mar. 9, 2017 at 1:17 p.m.

#12

Kazue

Wayne

Joined: Jan. 2017

Posts: 45

Likes: 0

Quoting: F50marco

Quoting: Mr_cap

Yah they are close, in terms of value. But then again, Avs need(s) are totally aside from that.

Yup. Exactly what I reiterated in my original comment.

You guys over value Duchene. Duchene is overrated, but you are making him. This is honestly too much for Duchene.

Mar. 9, 2017 at 1:29 p.m.

#13

Mr_cap

NBABound

Joined: Oct. 2016

Posts: 5,655

Likes: 1,392

Quoting: Kazue

Quoting: F50marco

Yup. Exactly what I reiterated in my original comment.

You guys over value Duchene. Duchene is overrated, but you are making him. This is honestly too much for Duchene.

How did we overvalue him? I don't think you read the comments correctly.

Mar. 13, 2017 at 9:11 p.m.

#14

Fox_Czar_Cup

B

Joined: Apr. 2016

Posts: 8,088

Likes: 1,479

Quoting: redw1n9s

Quoting: F50marco

Define not even close? Value wise, the trade is "close" even if I personally wouldn't do it either. That's why I reiterated for you since your comment was non constructive. Its not close in terms of what the Avs are looking for not in terms of value.

Stepan has 10 less points then Duchene has over the last 5 years. He's only 500K more expensive. While one is unanimously "better" one side needed to add to bring equality to the value each way. NYR did in this case. Once again this is just in terms of value straight up. Not looking at needs which was the point of my original comment.

You cannot compare Duchene to Stepan. You just cannot. Duchene is a top 3 pick and an elite player in the NHL. He's just on a bad team. Stepan is a middle 6 center; he's good but he's not comparable in any way. The Rangers are adding value with a 5th? And a good prospect? This is not even close - in terms of value or what the Avs are looking for.

Wrong again! Surprise, surprise. Stop reading and start watching. Top 3 pick, get over it already...

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