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Forums/Armchair-GM

defense trade without Nylander

Created by: Leafs_Fan3416
Team: 2023-24 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Sep. 10, 2023
Published: Sep. 10, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
I'm against trading Jarnkrok lol
also I feel like they need a good 3rd liner if they trade Jarny, we can't have Robertson playing RW in the playoffs
idek about anything with the leafs at this point, the lines, the trades, the defense, the cap, everything it confuses me
Can I hear from a Canes fan: Is pesce worth trading for?
Trades
CAR
  1. Brodie, TJ ($1,500,000 retained)
  2. Järnkrok, Calle
  3. 2024 3rd round pick (NYI)
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2024
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CHI
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the OTT
2025
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CHI
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2026
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
20$83,500,000$82,118,950$0$0$1,381,050
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,640,250$11,640,250
C
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,000,000$3,000,000
C, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,903,000$10,903,000
RW
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,400,000$2,400,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$796,667$796,667
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,150,000$1,150,000
RW, C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$800,000$800,000
C, LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,350,000$1,350,000
RW
UFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$7,500,000$7,500,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,150,000$4,150,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,550,000$3,550,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$4,025,000$4,025,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,000,000$2,000,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$766,667$766,667
G
RFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$800,000$800,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,400,000$1,400,000
RD
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,625,000$5,625,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,687,500$4,687,500
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Taxi Squad
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000 ($0$0$0$0)
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$875,000$875,000 ($0$0$0$0)
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,100,000$1,100,000 ($0$0$0$0)
RD
RFA - 2

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Sep. 11, 2023 at 2:57 p.m.
#26
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 19,860
Likes: 5,086
Quoting: NucksExec
I'll also add that your rating of Pesce is very wrong.

If he was rated that highly he would have been trade by now. When he does get moved don't be surprised if the return is low (even lower than what Brodie is traded for) if they both move


By who? Who would Pesce not have on his M-NTC (remember, he's already supposedly shot down a trade). Carolina also don't want to move him! Waddell has been open about wanting to keep Pesce if it's doable. Pesce wants to extend in Carolina, he's just asking for more than he's worth. He's asking for 7 mil over max term. I love Pesce, but holy **** he isn't worth that. He's WAY better than Brodie, and even the JFresh charts you showed proved the point. I don't like JFresh's model anyway because he uses TDH to try and justify it, which has a very limited sample size tracking closer to a quarter of the games. To say Pesce is a worse version of Brodie like you tried to originally is beyond braindead
Sep. 11, 2023 at 6:48 p.m.
#27
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Joined: Sep. 2023
Posts: 234
Likes: 101
Quoting: Caniac2000
By who? Who would Pesce not have on his M-NTC (remember, he's already supposedly shot down a trade). Carolina also don't want to move him! Waddell has been open about wanting to keep Pesce if it's doable. Pesce wants to extend in Carolina, he's just asking for more than he's worth. He's asking for 7 mil over max term. I love Pesce, but holy **** he isn't worth that. He's WAY better than Brodie, and even the JFresh charts you showed proved the point. I don't like JFresh's model anyway because he uses TDH to try and justify it, which has a very limited sample size tracking closer to a quarter of the games. To say Pesce is a worse version of Brodie like you tried to originally is beyond braindead


I'm more than happy to explain why this is the case. There's no reason for insults.

The problem with Pesce is he's just a unique player. Let look at two teams most fans think he fits in with Toronto and Vancouver.

Where would you play him in Toronto's lineup? He can't play with Rielly, it would negate his offensive ability and expose his defensive weaknesses. You can't play him on the second pair with Klingberg. So he's a third pairing D on Toronto.

Let's look at Vancouver. Same deal, won't fit with Hughes, Hronek is at 2RD, so he replaces Myers at 3RD.

You can go through most teams lineups and see that they either have a better RD and/or an offensive LD he doesn't fit with. The truth is that on most teams he's a 3RD or if you find the right fit a 2RD.

This is exactly what is happening to him in Carolina right now. He can't play with Orlov. Burns also shouldn't play with Orlov so he Pesce can't play top 4.

Carolina was lucky enough to have some great complementary players for him but Pesce just doesn't fit many teams. He isn't good enough to be a #2 to a pure offensive D and he won't be the best RD on pretty much any playoff team. So he falls to being a 3RD unless someone builds a pair around him.

Brodie is the opposite, he perfectly complements #1D which is why he's played as a #2 almost his entire career. He was beside Gio when he won the Norris, has played with Rielly and would complement Hughes as well. Very similar to how Mark Methot could complement Karlsson.

I'm not saying Pesce isn't good. I'm saying his mix of offense/defense isn't a fit for most teams. He ends up being cast in a complementary role most of the time and Brodie is way better in that role.

Now if you wanted to build a 2nd pair and had to pick a #3 you take Pesce over Brodie any day. But most teams are looking for a #2 and Pesce can't fill that role.

Whoever trades for him is likely looking for a #2RD to be their #3D. Most teams have a guy in that slot like Orlov, Klingberg, Hronek who they prefer over Pesce.

That's why I can almost guarantee if both players get traded Brodie will fetch more. His market will be bigger and more teams can slot him in without blowing up their entire D structure.
 
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