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lines v wings

Created by: SadSensFan14
Team: 2023-24 Ottawa Senators
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 15, 2023
Published: Nov. 15, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
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DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2024
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2025
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2026
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$83,500,000$77,103,214$0$1,850,000$6,396,786

Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
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$8,205,714$8,205,714
LW
UFA - 5
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$7,950,000$7,950,000
C
UFA - 7
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$4,975,000$4,975,000
RW, LW
UFA - 4
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$2,950,000$2,950,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
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$8,350,000$8,350,000
C
UFA - 8
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$2,500,000$2,500,000
RW
NTC
UFA - 1
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$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
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$6,500,000$6,500,000
RW, C
NMC
UFA - 2
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$2,500,000$2,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$894,167$894,167
LW
RFA - 2
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$775,000$775,000
C
UFA - 1
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$762,500$762,500
LW
RFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$1,850,000$2M)
LD
UFA - 1
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$4,600,000$4,600,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 4
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$4,000,000$4,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 5
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$4,600,000$4,600,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
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$805,000$805,000
RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$2,750,000$2,750,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$916,667$916,667
LD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$2,000,000$2,000,000
LD/RD, LW
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$775,000$775,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$863,333$863,333
C, LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$8,000,000$8,000,000
LD
UFA - 5
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$775,000$775,000
RW, C
UFA - 3
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$835,000$835,000
C, RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$1,100,000$1,100,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 2

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Nov. 15, 2023 at 6:21 p.m.
#1
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Nah, Batherson needs to learn how to speak 3rdline-ese for a bit.
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Nov. 15, 2023 at 9:35 p.m.
#2
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Why Green
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Quoting: stuuuuuuuuuuutzle
Nah, Batherson needs to learn how to speak 3rdline-ese for a bit.


I put him on the 2nd pp. But he has been crap this year.
Nov. 15, 2023 at 11:20 p.m.
#3
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Quoting: SadSensFan14
I put him on the 2nd pp. But he has been crap this year.


But bro have you seen all the speedy rushes where he stays way to the outside, lobs a weak backhander into the side of the net, loses a puck battle, and then doesn't backcheck? That's an elite skillset right there.
Nov. 17, 2023 at 6:07 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: stuuuuuuuuuuutzle
But bro have you seen all the speedy rushes where he stays way to the outside, lobs a weak backhander into the side of the net, loses a puck battle, and then doesn't backcheck? That's an elite skillset right there.

Batherson the has 5th highest xGF/60 (3.91) in the Sens forward group (after Tkachuk, Stutzle, Giroux and Norris). He's creating a lot of offense, only recently pucks have started going in. His xGF/60 is also Top-100 among the 325 forwards who have played at least 150 minutes. His xGA/60 is also 2.77, which is 123rd among the same 325 forward. Also Top-100 in xGF%
Nov. 17, 2023 at 6:45 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: Xspyrit
Batherson the has 5th highest xGF/60 (3.91) in the Sens forward group (after Tkachuk, Stutzle, Giroux and Norris). He's creating a lot of offense, only recently pucks have started going in. His xGF/60 is also Top-100 among the 325 forwards who have played at least 150 minutes. His xGA/60 is also 2.77, which is 123rd among the same 325 forward. Also Top-100 in xGF%


Oh I'm exaggerating for sure because he obviously does some good things, but he's such a frustrating watch and absolutely awful defensively. Only being 123rd in xGA/60 is really bad because he's near the bottom of all top six forwards in terms of d-zone starts. Most of the skilled guys with similar deployment have much better xG shares this year - Toffoli, Kaprizov, Panarin, Rakell, etc.
Nov. 19, 2023 at 12:07 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: stuuuuuuuuuuutzle
Oh I'm exaggerating for sure because he obviously does some good things, but he's such a frustrating watch and absolutely awful defensively. Only being 123rd in xGA/60 is really bad because he's near the bottom of all top six forwards in terms of d-zone starts. Most of the skilled guys with similar deployment have much better xG shares this year - Toffoli, Kaprizov, Panarin, Rakell, etc.

D-zone starts don't mean as much as I used to think but yeah, Bath is not going to be used to protect a lead or to take a defensive face-off at the end of a period, etc. Batherson is an offensive winger, a lot of forwards are not "good defensively" but can play within a system. Ottawa has no system, they are fun to watch in the offensive zone but mostly rely on their D-men who are all good/elite at transition (except Hamonic of course) to retrieve the puck and transition it quickly

Batherson had the best +/- on the Sens in 2021-22 (except Joseph and Hamonic who were acquired at the trade deadline) so it means that he was better utilized that season (and it was also pre injury). You need partially shelter your pure offensive wingers. First, they need a good 2-way Center. Batherson has played with rookie Pinto last year after missing a FULL season and has been with Norris who also missed a FULL season.

A team like Boston would really like to acquire a guy like that, under 5.0 AAV and would make him near a PPG winger again and be adequate defensively again.

So all that said, I wouldn't evaluate any Sens player defensively in a DJ Smith system. Those who are already doing well (like Joseph or Greig) is because they are pretty damn good defensively.
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Nov. 19, 2023 at 9:25 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: Xspyrit
D-zone starts don't mean as much as I used to think but yeah, Bath is not going to be used to protect a lead or to take a defensive face-off at the end of a period, etc. Batherson is an offensive winger, a lot of forwards are not "good defensively" but can play within a system. Ottawa has no system, they are fun to watch in the offensive zone but mostly rely on their D-men who are all good/elite at transition (except Hamonic of course) to retrieve the puck and transition it quickly

Batherson had the best +/- on the Sens in 2021-22 (except Joseph and Hamonic who were acquired at the trade deadline) so it means that he was better utilized that season (and it was also pre injury). You need partially shelter your pure offensive wingers. First, they need a good 2-way Center. Batherson has played with rookie Pinto last year after missing a FULL season and has been with Norris who also missed a FULL season.

A team like Boston would really like to acquire a guy like that, under 5.0 AAV and would make him near a PPG winger again and be adequate defensively again.

So all that said, I wouldn't evaluate any Sens player defensively in a DJ Smith system. Those who are already doing well (like Joseph or Greig) is because they are pretty damn good defensively.


The problem with Batherson is that he is worse even than some of the other Sens forwards defensively, and that he's not providing enough offense to compensate. You mention 21-22, and yeah between 2020 and 2022 his +- was a lot better...because he was actually finishing. Like that's one of the biggest differences, he's just not scoring. And that's why I joke about the weak backhanders into the side of the net; he's not providing enough offense to make up for it.

That being said, yeah DJ is obviously the issue. I don't think it's a coincidence so many of our top young forwards are mediocre or bad defensively. But I also would like someone to wake Batherson up, because watching him right now is actually difficult
Nov. 19, 2023 at 9:30 p.m.
#8
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Why Green
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Quoting: stuuuuuuuuuuutzle
The problem with Batherson is that he is worse even than some of the other Sens forwards defensively, and that he's not providing enough offense to compensate. You mention 21-22, and yeah between 2020 and 2022 his +- was a lot better...because he was actually finishing. Like that's one of the biggest differences, he's just not scoring. And that's why I joke about the weak backhanders into the side of the net; he's not providing enough offense to make up for it.

That being said, yeah DJ is obviously the issue. I don't think it's a coincidence so many of our top young forwards are mediocre or bad defensively. But I also would like someone to wake Batherson up, because watching him right now is actually difficult


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