flames decline

Yeah both those trades are very pens friendly… add a first to both trades and then you’re closer

What asset is Calgary getting for Hanifan? All I see is a 2nd and Smith for taking on the Graves contract.

Joseph has little or no trade value per Pittsburgh's own Matt Vensel of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

Blues have no reason to trade hayes for Acciari plus POJ let alone add retention.

Matt would be correct.
You on the other hand are not. Graves is not a cap dump. Graves is an average 2nd pairing guy on an average 2nd pairing ava.
You act like he's a cap dump, he's not.
PIT would never make that trade. It's lopsided for CGY.

This is 10000% absolutely the correct take. The Graves contract is going to age very poorly.

While not a cap dump per se, Pittsburgh would not get equal value for a struggling 2nd pair defenseman which is why they are looking for defense help and someone to play with Karlsson on the second pairing. $4.5M for a soon to be 29 year old with 5 more years after this one is a lot to ask someone to take on.

Graves is not a cap dump. They are not "looking" for someone to play with Karlsson.
Graves is running a 50% corsi and fenwick.
He's an average 2nd pair defenseman on a roughly average 2nd pairing salary.
What exactly do you think you get out of an average defenseman in the NHL?
I hate to break it to you, but the other teams score goals too.

Just so you know, i'm not making this up. Here is the article from the Athletic with the Pittsburgh looking for defensive help and for someone to play with Karlsson. (https://theathletic.com/5234766/2024/01/31/penguins-jake-guentzel-trade-mailbag/). I believe it was Phil Bourque also reiterated this on nhl radio.

"If the Penguins go into full buyer mode, which is possible, I think they need to address the blue line. I wouldn’t have said this a couple of months ago. However, Ryan Graves’ continuing struggles are impossible to ignore. Graves actually played OK on the third pairing with Chad Ruhwedel, but he’s displayed no aptitude to play with Karlsson or Letang. So, finding someone to play top-four minutes on the left side is mandatory."

Again, not my words but people who cover the Penguins. And again, I never said he was a cap dump, that Pittsburgh won't get fair value for him due to a combination of his struggles and contract. Average defenseman is a #5 - #7 dman since there are more average players than good/great players.

Welcome to the internet, I know you are new here.
Let me give you some pointers.
That is called clickbait.....don't press it.

Their job is to say whatever sells clicks. "IF".......
Graves has never been a 3rd pair. Anyone looking at the minutes on the ice knows this. He is consistantly 4th. Simply go to fantasy tools, depth chart, penguins. and you can clearly see he plays 19:19 a night on average while the other two there are playing 12 and 13 minutes. That has not changed.
The other option on the LD is POJ and a rotating cast because he sucks and is AHL level.
So please don't tell me about how he's been a "3rd pairing". You clearly DO NOT KNOW.

His play has been average, his stats show this, not just the basic stats where his points are ok and he's a net + player on the ice, but his advanced stats like Corsi and Fenwick.

You read some total garbage on the internet and then come sprouting opinions. Try actually watching games to form opinions instead of being a useful clickbait idiot.
Maybe some research into players stats, etc... Hell both MP and Graves are playing with two guys in Letang and EK who are known to make bone head decisions. Yes they can be very good, but in their own end their are low light reels of bad decision making. Look at the letang to malkin pass for an empty net goal for an easy example this year.
Graves has been fine. The people who have issue with graves are the ones who need "something" to complain about for clicks......and well there you.
I won't get into why they blame graves instead of pointing out the horrible 3rd pairing of AHL level talent. Or the rotating forward group of AHL level quality.
Somethings are just easier to get a click on i guess without getting backlash....

I guess people with direct interaction and knowledge with the Pittsburgh organization know nothing about what their needs are...got it. I'll take the opinion of someone who has never played the game above a beer league level.

That being said, I have watched Graves play for years and this year he has had regression especially on the offensive end. His defensive numbers are still good. I don't know if he thinks he has to take on a more defensive role or not which is why his offense has suffered. Agree that Karlsson can make bonehead plays which puts his partner in a tough spot but I don't put that on Graves. My issue was with your trade not Graves...don't know where you thought I was dumping on him. Graves and a mid 2nd round pick for Hanifin is not enough. And who knows if Graves has calgary on his no trade list. The article and NHL program I referenced were not my opinions, just what was read and heard from people with direct knowledge and interaction with the organization.

A. this is not "my trade"
B. the whole convesation was about the value of graves.
C. I played college hockey.
so strike 3 on all. Good day.

1. You never said it wasn't your trade
2. Conversation was Graves and the 2nd was not enough for Hanifin
3. So did i