Since when do teams sign and then flip UFAs? You wouldn't be able to move that Hornqvist contract anyway, and if you did, it certainly wouldn't be for anything of quality.

since when do teams sign and flip UFAs? since literally forever. It's called a sign and trade. but really im just insane and i dont appreciate you telling me what 2 doooooo

I know what a sign and trade is... gimme an example of an NHL sign and trade... I'll wait.

Even in other sports, it only happens with star players. In this case you're creating a negative value asset with Hornqvist. As I said, no one wants that contract.

Jeff Carter. we really gunna pretend that sign and trades dont happen in the NHL? thats nuts lol.

and TBH i just kinda willy nillied the sign part.

also I'll bet you right now that Horny gets a deal within 500,000 of that.

Carter signed a deal in November and was traded in the summer. Sign and trades are an NBA thing.

Hornqvist may very well get within 500k of that. It's the term that's the problem.

Im sorry i dont think i specified when horny would be signed... and no, sign and trades are a sports thing. The term is a problem in 4-5 years, teams make deals like thatliterally all the time.

Tyler Seguin was signed and traded so fast the contract didnt even kick in yet

I love this thread. Its kinda like some of mine

not to go on a bit of a tangent here but ive done some digging now and a sign and trade type deal seems to happen like literally every year. sometimes the player signed his contract a month or two prior, and many times the player is traded and a new contract is signed day of, and many players have been signed and then traded the same day

an example of the first type is Jeff Carter, and example of the second type is Phil Kessel, Freddy anderson, Alex burrows, or Kyle Turris, and an example of the third type is Marian Hossa.

but sure buddy! theres never been a sign and trade in hockey

Seguin was signed in September and traded the following July. Same situation as Carter, traded before the next contract kicked in, but it's still not a sign and trade if it happens almost a year later. Google is your friend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_and_trade

And yes, teams sign players to 5 year deals all the time, but not when the player is 31 years old and not an elite player. He'll be 36 when that contract ends and will have regressed a lot.

Dude, those aren't sign and trades. A sign and trade is where a player signs the contract knowing that it will immediately be traded to another team. And the player usually knows that team. NONE OF THOSE CASES ARE EXAMPLES.

You weren't lying about your insanity.

you dont need to link to what a sign-and-trade is in the nba. yes the nba has exact Sign-and-trade contracts a lot. that still doesnt mean NHL teams never sign a player and then ship them out soon after, sometimes day of. Ive provided you with 5 memorable examples of a sign and trade being within a day of eachother, all of which are recent and relevant

A SIGN AND TRADE IS AN NBA THING!!!!!!! None are relevant. FIND ME AN EXAMPLE OF A PLAYER THAT SIGNED WITH AN NHL TEAM AND WAS IMMEDIATELY TRADED. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF A SIGN AND TRADE...

I don't think you understand and I don't care to explain any further so BYE!

https://www.sportingcharts.com/dictionary/nba/sign-and-trade-agreements.aspx

that is a "NBA Sign-and-Trade" where they know ahead of time.

this is has literally zero effect on the NHL. You are pretending that nobody has ever been signed, then traded soon after. this is insane. nobody said that horny had to be shipped out day of, that was your assumption, and then you again claiming no team has ever done such a thing as sign a player and then flip him shortly after, this is patently false as ive thrown out a plethora of players who have had exactly this happen to them.

a sign and trade in the NHL is not the same as a Sign-and-trade in the NBA. these two sports are not the same at all and using NBA definitions is insane. all im suggesting is the pens trade Hornqvist before he leaves the team

they can do this by signing him prior to a trade or by trading him to a team that signs him that day such as most NHL sign and trades are done

again, if you can follow me here

in this scenario the pens arent Sign-and-trading Patric to the NBA

they are signing and then trading, or perhaps just trading and allowing him to sign with the other team (PRIOR to free agency, also the most plausible scenario).

I already did this you bloody knob

Marian Hossa was traded hours after signing

A sign and trade in the NHL is not the same as a sign and trade in the NBA, because SIGN AND TRADE IS AN NBA TERM LITERALLY WRITTEN IN THEIR CBA.

So, you initially said it was a sign and trade, but now you're saying it's not a sign and trade, but a sign and maybe a trade a little while later... or maybe no sign at all, just a trade, which no team would give more than a 7th rounder for Hornqvist's UFA rights... who's the real knob here?

I mean, take away the draft picks there and just let Hornqvist walk.. This roster is still actually doable lol

I doubt VGK would get rid of a 26 year old defender on pace for 40 points with a good cap hit for Carl Hagelin. Besides that, some of the RFA and UFA signings are low, so I don't think the team as its written there would fit under the cap.

I thought you were done buddy?

Nowhere did i say hornqvist was meant to be a sign and trade, literally nowhere. You assumed it was and i fought you on the veracity of the statement that a sign and trade type deal doesnt happen in the nhl.

yes its literally written into the NBA CBA, that still has no effect on the nhl why the **** do you keep talking about the NBA? next youll start talking about tom brady when I call Kessel a powerplay quarterback. what an insult to my intelligence. cant wait for you to talk about Ace ventura just because there was a goalie named Jim Carey. bloody nut.

i did not say the horny deal was a sign and trade. I said a player being signed and dealt right after is called a sign and trade.

I also gave three different types of deals and defined what i mean by a sign and trade in the nhl, which again has nothing to do with a sign-and-trade. although since the NBA means so much to you, One such type deal was the Hossa deal in which hossa was traded for Dany Heatley hours after signing. And by the way I love the lengths you are going to pretend i didnt give you this example.

to answer your question i am indeed saying its not a sign and trade (find me where i said it was and ill concede this argument, but luckily for me i dont have to because youve just been putting words in my mouth for me this whole time because apparently you want my to fill my mouth with as much bullshit as is dribbling out of yours.)

Didnt buffalo give up a third just for UFA rights to frickin Jimmy Vesey and then he signed elsewhere? lol again you are nutzos if you think horny is only worth a 7th for ufa rights.... the team taking him would be extending him prior to free agency opening, the trade wouldnt happen unless he agreed to sign with them like the cases of Turris, Kessel, or burrows.

whats even nuttier about you is that you came into a thread were a self described insane person actually suggested the pens go ahead and sign Tavares, and you are hung up on the fact that patric hornqvist was signed and traded or traded and signed without enough time to pass between the events.

knob

Which signings were low? Rust should get less than sheary as hes put up lesser numbers, 2.5 seems right. Jarry is a young backup, a mill is maybe underselling a bit. Sheahan got a raise after scoring literally like 2 goals in a whole season, plus theres a mill in capspace to make any of those work

he already did.

Thanks for the novel. I won't read any of it.

Is this because you're illiterate or because while he may have been a dick about it, he was right on every point?

1. Reaves will get equal or more than the $1.125 he gets now.
2. Sprong is MAJORLY undervalued. He's 20, has NHL experience and is scoring a point per game in the AHL this year. Pay up. He won't take another entry level deal lol
3. Sheahan is a 26 year old centre scoring at near 0.5 PPG pace. He'll get closer to $3M
4. Simon is scoring at a good clip in the AHL this year and has seen his role increase with the big club. Not to mention he's 23. He might take 900k for one year, but over 3 years he'll want more than that.

He wasn't right on every point. The only one even close to a sign and trade was Hossa, which happened 13 years ago and had arbitration hearings surrounding it, etc. Not the same. To think that this is possible with Hornqvist is out to lunch. Quit wasting my time.