take out the first its close

i'd rather give faulk and toss in prospect adam fox

no sure CAR is interested in moving Pesce, I would love to get nylander though

Brett Pesce is a quality defenseman, but I wouldn't consider him a 1RD. If he's your top pairing guy, you have problems.

1. Nylander is a beastly C, that 1st is in all likelihood a late and expendable one. There's also the fact that CAR has been hunting a 1C for a while (it's the only real hole they have in terms of skaters) and has possibly 3 !RDs (Hamilton, Pesce, Faulk), which IMO ups Nylander's relative value.
2. CAR probably would prefer moving Faulk or TVR. But TOR doesn't really want those guys IMO and is pretty much the only one selling a 1C. Pesce's not irreplaceable with that kind of depth at RD.
3. Slavin-Pesce was one of the best pairings in the NHL last year. Slavin's good, but he's not carrying a 2RD to that.

I’d go for Dougie, but unfortunately Carolina will not trade him.

Brett Pesce is a number 1 rdm on a lot of teams. doesn't score a lot but neither do the canes he is a shut down guy though with great hockey sense and great positioning with a good first pass.

TVR is better than half the d leafs have and if the leafs could dump gardiner, faulk would be a better player than Gardiner and a great replacement fox is a solid prospect. nylander is a stud and I would not trade him. for less than a kings ransom

Don't underestimate Gardiner, his transition helps a ton for Toronto, even if it sometime screws up. Better to give up a few nasty chances than to let your team get pinned in its own zone.
Nylander's also about to cost 7 million with two deals as big as his looming and a significant hole in the roster. Post-Tavares, I don't know how the Leafs fill out the roster without trading Nylander/Marner, and C's where the demand is ATM.

think what you want about gardiner he is absolute garbage on d. He turns the puck over or is out of position on almost every play. They can fill out a roster this year just have a weak d next year will be rough though

You got stats for that or is it just watching? Because generally speaking the numbers say Gardiner's defensive results are solid. A lot of the negative views on his D are the result of some ugly plays (his aggressive style of play in transition does tend to give up some highly visible rush chances while suppressing chances against in general), and some bad games (2 straight nasty game 7s against BOS 5 years apart), enhanced by the omnipresent cognitive specters of confirmation bias and the effects of schema on memory (look up Elizabeth Loftus for some stuff on the latter). That D core's pretty solid, if not really a massive strength. Given that this team arguably has 2 of the league's top 5 Cs and undoubtedly 2 of the top 10, along with maybe 3 of the top 30, that's pretty good. About $15 million cap space next year, which should be plenty for Matthews, Marner and Gardiner's raises.

He consistently averages more turn overs 477 than take aways 228. his career shots though percentage is 41% it means 59 % of his shots get blocked. He is on ice for 2.4 goals a game for the leafs. Yes some of it is the eye test also I watch hockey night in Canada every week they always have the leafs game.

AS for the leafs d
Rielly, Morgan young offensive d man improving every year
Zaitsev, Nikita was solid first year very inconsistent last year
Gardiner, Jake junk
Hainsey, Ron old but solid if his body holds out
Carrick, Connor young but likely a 6/7 d man
Dermott, Travis potential to be a number for needs to continue to develop.

Matthews do a huge raise at least what JT got
Marner, 7 years 6-7 million
Kapanen, 4 years 4-5 million
Gardiner let him walk
Hainsey, to old
Carrick, 2 years 3 million

the leafs have 10 roster players under contract in the nhl for 2019- 2020 even if they can count on 2 or 3 players coming up from the minors still makes it tight salary cap wise.

Turnovers are a bad stat. Most of the time large numbers of turnovers just mean you have the puck a lot (Jake does). He's on the ice for a load of scoring because A) the Leafs score a lot, especially with the team's leader in assists on the ice and B) Jake's typical partner was Nikita Zaitsev last year, and Zaitsev has some major defensive issues (he's on PK2 mostly due to lack of options). Guy gives up some nasty chances from his side and can't defend the blueline.
TOR's org depth is pretty damn impressive. Grundstrom, Lindholm, Engvall and Aaltonen are all safe bets to make the team by that point. Having a ton of cash invested in a few stars and having a revolving door of young players to complement them is a winning formula, just ask the Blackhawks or the Penguins.

we disagree on jake gardiner i highly doubt we change the others mind although i did provide some proof as in numbers, believing every prospect you have is a safe bet to make the big team is not smart. ask the pens that. the pens also had quite a few prospects that didnt make it and have had quite a few excellent d man Gonchar, letang before injuries orpik, hall gill ad scuderi who in 2009 became the shutdown pair and doumolin, maatta, shultz, daley and others who stepped up big time. iam not saying the leafs cant have prospects make it or have guys step up. just saying its not as easy as you think.

Shouldn't be too hard for the team who's AHL affiliate won the Calder Cup last year to get some prospects out of there. TOR's done amazing work at the draft table, the Marlies are the best developmentl team in the AHL, and Laurence Gilman was very successful as a prospect guy in Vancouver. Not every prospect will make, but the Leafs have a lot of really good prospects and the ability to add more (they have 2 1sts in 2019 in this scenario).

dude none of that is any more than your opinion really. successful in vancouver at what the only picks/players they have are horvat and BROCK BOESER. JAKE VIRTANEN is a bust big time. the rest of the canucks roster is free agents and bad trades. Few years ago the Pens had unreal defensive prospects in Harrington, P. Samuelson, pouliot, morrow, Depres, Harrison Ruopp, and brain doumolin all of them were 1st or 2nd round picks and considered good prospects to date one has met his potential. The pens also had what was considered a great scouting staff and development team at least 2 are nhl coaches and 4 or 5 are asgm or gms. prospects and the draft are a crap shoot. as for calders champs that is awesome but WBS penguins have done well most years in the playoffs also with with only limited success of players moving up.

Marlies were also the AHL regular season champs with little suggesting that any of it was a mirage. Most of their top prospects are considered NHL ready, at which point most of the uncertainty fades. Utica was still strong this year. Most of getting franchise players is having the luck to get top picks, which the management has little to deal with. WBS does consistently well and the Pens have consistently been able to bring young talent from there into into their lineup. Prospects are risky, but they're also the only way to afford good complementary talent while paying superstars what they're worth, and TOR is well-positioned to do that.

the leafs have a ton of young talent and former high draft picks. They will be a very strong team but unless Zaitsev bounces back big time, Gardiner wakes up, Dermott takes a big step forward this year. they have a hole on there defense. I like hainsey but he is getting older and slower and will have a hard time at playing top 4 minutes. I also am not a person who thinks Tanev is the answer for leafs a solid d but way to may injuries. i think the leafs best bet is to work a trade out with the canes each team has a surplus of what the other needs.

That's the point of this team. Unfortunately for TOR, getting the 1RD they need will probably cost them Nylander.
Gardiner's generally been awake his whole career. Just not in Game 7s in the first round against the Bruins.
Hainsey hopefully can eat 2RD minutes. If not, Zaitsev's probably fine.

i never said it was a mirage just pointing out not all ahl stars turn into nhl players. Gilman was fired 3 years ago by the canucks so most of utica not his doing ,besides Thatcher Demko not much of there roster is any more than ahl journeymen or marginal talent. i live an hour from them watched them play 10/11 times was not very impressed. they may have a couple of kids that can make it but i be surprised. the only top talent that has made a mark in nhl for the pens in the last ten years is murray, doumulin, jake Guetzel. not a great percentage if you think of the picks they had

every good team runs into it sacrifice young talent in trades or gamble on players to bounce back. again dont believe we will change each others mind on gardiner. hainsey and zaitsev are the key to your season.

Sheary's been decent for them. Don't need a great percentage, just have a ton of picks. I personally support the "don't draft for 6 rounds but have 31 7th rounders" strategy, but I was too lazy to fully implement it here.

sheary was a undrafted free agent