That is way too much for a defensive defenceman. If that's what it would take to get him then its too much and he's not worth the effort. Especially when you'll have a better player coming up in the near future in Liljegren. The Leafs don't need to spend a lot of assets to upgrade their defence, which isn't terrible to begin with, its just not elite.

Everyone is so worried about the defence and haters say its the worst in the league, but it was 12th best in the entire NHL last year, including being better than Tampa. A trade between the Jets of Myers for Gardiner is something that makes sense since both teams are essentially trading deadline rentals to each other that fill the most glaring hole both teams have. Why give up a 1st (worth more than Pesce), Borgman (Could be comparable to Pesce once he's had enough time to really figure out playing defence in North America), Kapanen (who we don't know if he's just a good bottom 6 speed demon or a top 6 speed demon with 30 goal potential) and Sparks (The best goalie in the AHL last year, who completely out played blue chip prospect Thatcher Demko) for a guy who's a good skating defensive defenceman?

Pesce is a great hockey player, but he's not worth the price it will take to get him.

The Thing about Pesce is he’s on a great contract as well and he’s one of the best shutdown guys in the league this is worth it imo but I agree it would suck losing kapanen but we can’t just trade garbage for a good player

Zaitsev + 1st and 2nd

I wouldn't give up a first rounder at this time for Pesce, I'd play hard ball with Carolina, they need scoring and depth if they want to make the playoffs and they have a surplus of d. They are trying to make a move to improve a weakness and there is a lot of pressure to make that move. So Carolina needs to convince TO to move something, not the other way around. So with that in mind, I'd offer something like Engvall or Grundstrom and a 2nd and a 4th and start there.

I know that Carolina fans are going to be outraged, I would too if I was them, but if we are being just objective the negotiating power is not in Carolina's corner.

I hear you. What do you think of Sandin?

Also, does Stone's signing drive down Nylanders value? Does him coming in at 7.13 or whatever it was insure Nylander will be in the 6 ranger and maybe even Marner in the late 6 early 7 range?

This deal actually looks quite good for both sides.

TOR gets the best player in the deal on an incredible contract.

I think he is another defenceman who should have went higher in his draft. He's got loads of talent and is a next level skater. TO always drafts the best player available and by best they stress two things, speed and skill. No idea if he'll pan out yet but he's worth hanging onto. I actually think the Leafs have several intriguing blue line prospects coming up. Rasanen looks like he could be something interesting down the line, Liljegren I think will be a terrific player as soon as next year. Durzi has impressed me with his drive and he's a very strong skater as well.

I am not someone who is worried about the defence, I think it'll sort itself out. The most important thing is getting Matthews, Marner and Nylander signed long term. Then we can add some d help at the deadline if what we have isn't good enough.

Does Stone's signing drive down Nylanders value? Does him coming in at 7.13 or whatever it was insure Nylander will be in the 6 range and maybe even Marner in the late 6 early 7 range

I wouldn't say an incredible contract, he's a very good defenceman in his own end and kills penalties well but has very little to offer offensively and for his size isn't exactly physical (not that that is a deal breaker at all). For sure he's the best player currently out of those guys but its not a huge gulf to cross when you are trying to be as valuable as a defensive defenceman. Yes they are very important for team success, but was Willie Mitchel the guy who won the cup for LA when they took home their cup?

Pesce is good but the value people are associating with him is silly. All you have to do is point at Hall for Larsson. Larsson was far more highly touted than Pesce is and it was a disaster trade. You don't give up a lot for guys that are defensive defenceman, you just won't get the value in return. Sure Larsson was great for Edmonton his first season but he'll never be as valuable as Hall. Just like Pesce will never be as valuable as someone like Morgan Rielly, sure Pesce is better defensively but Rielly is a better skater, and has loads more skill that increase his value in ways that Pesce will never be able to match.

So with all that in mind and considering that all the pressure to make this move is on Carolina's shoulders and not Toronto's, this is a huge overpay and would be shot down immediately.

Also worth considering, how will TO pay for Pesce next year? They will watch Gardiner and Hainsey walk, resign Matthews, Marner, Kapanen and Johnnson with about 20-22 million of cap to work with. I think Matthews will get the same cap hit as Tavares so now we are down to between 9-11 million remaining. Marner will get around 8 I bet, so we have 1-3 million left to sign Johnsson and Kapanen. One of them may need to be traded and replaced with a farm hand making close to league min just to make the cap work next year.

The Leafs almost can't take on any long term contracts until after Marleau is off the books.

I think Marner will wait to sign, which is a tad risky for him but I think this deal will pretty much cap Nylander at 7 million for 8 years. They can't go lower because of the other insane deals handed out to guys like Wilson and Hayes who both are over 5 mill and not even close to as talented as Nylander. I think Marner either signs for a identical contract as Nylander gets or he gets up to a million more, but that's only if he has a significantly better season than Nylander. Like if Marner scores 80+ and Nylander scores 70+ then I think Marner gets 8x8. If Nylander scores 80+ and Marner gets below 80 then maybe Dubas can convince Marner to take a matching contract to Nylanders.

How will they pay Pesce next year? If TOR can't figure out how to include a $4.0M dman for each spot in their Top 4, defense is going to remain the big problem with this team. And you're seriously under-valuing how well Rielly and Pesce would pair together as the top pair if you think it's not worth over-paying to get the player.

I think they'd be sick together but its a difficult trade to make for a number of reasons that I've already gone over. Either Carolina is going to have to moderate their expectations on a return or they would never trade with TO. As I've mentioned several times, all the pressure to make a trade is squarely on Carolina, they haven't made the playoffs in 9 years, have great depth at RHD and need scoring. TO had the 12th best defence in the league last year and then landed John Tavares, they have zero pressure to do anything except start the season.

So if Carolina wants something from TO, they are going to have to pay the higher price to obtain it. Its all about market pressures and stuff.