So because Shattenkirk has been better than Scandella, I should be impressed? I am well aware Shattenkirk is better than him, but that doesn't mean he has been exceptional overall.

I am not making this deal because I am DYING to get my hands on Scandella. I am doing this deal to free up a roster spot (for Miller or whoever), ship out an overpriced Defenseman whose Offensive production has not compensated for his misgivings on Defense (which was always a knock on him anyway), free up Cap space past this year and acquire a solid Pick.

Taking Scandella just makes it more appealing to Buffalo. He'd probably get buried in Hartford all year anyway.

Thank you for proving my point so eloquently. Not one of those 3 players you mentioned was acquired in a trade. All 3 were signed as Free Agents (Girardi after a Buyout) by their most recent teams. No trades. No Prospects given up. Cause they weren't worth it.

So if I'm looking at this right. The cost of holding on to Shattenkirk is about 13 mil. (2 x 6.65)

The cost of getting rid of Shattenkirk is 4mil (Scandella) + 6.65mil (2 x 3.325 retention) SO we're talking about a cap change of 10.5 mil. So for a 3.5 mil difference, You're basically going from a certified top4 PP QB dman to an AHL player.

I think that difference is worth more than a 2nd rounder and 3.5 mil.

I don't understand the point. Who's asking for prospects? What I'm talking about was an offense for defense cap dump swap....Say Vancouver needs D and Rangers need wingers.

You're paying $675K more in Year 1, and $3.325M less in Year 2. With a 2nd Round Pick. And a free Roster spot on D.

You're argument here was that you thought it wasn't as difficult to trade Staal. You then tried to back up your argument by naming 3 players who, like Staal, also weren't traded. One who was so untradeable, he had to be Bought Out, before signing with Tampa on a lesser deal. Your argument supported my argument (that Staal is untradeable) more than your own.

Not quite sure if I agree with you at all. You'll notice a difference between all 3 situations and this one.

All 3 of those situations involved Playoff contenders without any cap space (Rangers/Blue Jackets/Caps) at the time. You're dealing with a rebuilding team with cap flexibility. And again...why would the notion of "clearing a space" for a guy have any value....when you can just bench Staal and or send down Smith or....trade both.

Not for anything of value. But You wouldn't say a team that desires a crease clearing defensemen with things such as "experience", "leadership", "grit" etc. Wouldn't say trade someone perceived as overpaid or slightly too soft such as Sam Gagner, Loui Eriksson, or Dale Weise, or Jason Demers, or I can go on but you get the idea. The difference between a couple mil in cap is easier to manage.

The idea is to replicate something like a Nino for Rask trade where you fool a dumb team into taking on a significantly worse player because they don't look much past cap hit, point total and reputation.

Right now, by trading Shattenkirk for a Scandella package, you're trading Nino for Rask,...

I am open to sending Smith to Hartford (no NMC) if he can't be traded. That's fine.

But again, you're putting out the idea that Staal can be moved. Not only does he have absolutely no value (even with retention), but even in the event someone became interested, he could veto the deal with his NMC (don't think he wants to leave NY).

It's Girardi all over again. Either buy him out, or bench him (made easier by freeing up more Cap going into 20-21).

The point of bringing up all the players who were signed is to dispel the notion of him having as you say "Absolutely no value even with retention". Jack Johnson, who is a worse player for Staal and the same exact age signed a 5 year 4.1 mil deal JUST LAST OFFSEASON.

I think the issue with the Rangers specifically with Staal/Girardi isn't that they tried to trade them and failed. I don't think they attempted. I think they perceive them both as good, valuable players. The Girardi buyout was more health related than anything.

That's a load of crap. Nobody ever utilizes a Buyout as Plan A. A Buyout is a last resort when you can't get rid of them.

The Rangers didn't look at Girardi and say "We really like this guy. We don't want to trade him. Let's just pay out his Contract over 6 years without attempting to get any sort of compensation for him. Then watch him sign elsewhere ".

"Or...hey we need the cap room to sign this top pair dman because we're trying to make the cup. Let's sacrifice the future to win the cup now....And we can get away with it because we got a top 10 pick this year anyway"

Sounds like something Sather would do....

What are you referring to specifically?

Girardi buyout, Stepan trade, NHL Draft, Shattenkirk signing, all within about 2 weeks.

After all that Rangers still having only 5.5 mil in cap space (expecting Klein to still be around) and Zibanejad still needing to sign and trying to keep your offensive core together in Miller, Hayes, McDonagh the next offseason.

Buying out Girardi seems to make sense financially...

Bought Out, because he couldn't be traded. Exactly. Girardi had to go. I get that point, and agree with it. But it wasn't "health related ". It was "this guy sucks, he's dragging down our Defense, and nobody wants to give up anything to take him off our hands".

I admit it's ironic that we are now looking to get rid of the guy (Shattenkirk) that we wanted to get rid of the other guy (Girardi) for, but that's what happens when you don't perform up to your contract.

Yeah I think you're missing the nuance here. Less of team's being like "Girardi sucks. I don't like how he plays on the ice", and more of teams saying "I don't think a guy who's played on a cracked knee cap for 4 months and an absolutely wrecked ankle and numerous concussions is going to play many games for us for a 3 season contract". AND THEY WERE RIGHT! Girardi missed a quarter of this season with injuries, and who knows how long he'll hold up next year. This distinction is pretty important because Staal has been largely unscathed the last couple seasons and has 2 years remaining not 3....Staal's presence here has more to do with Ruff wanting him here than anything.

I also don't think Shatty has been that bad either of the past 2 seasons....

Being healthy enough to stay on the ice doesn't mean you have been much of a factor while on the ice.

Shattenkirk has been so so, at best. Not paying for so so. If all he will give us is so so, would rather open up a spot for a so so Prospect to get their feet wet and advance past being so so.