Mantha starts with Bouchard and 2020 1st.

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH

Chicago trade makes no sense for either team yet would probably get done, you’d need to add a first to get gost in this market, and that is way too much for mantha. That’s 4 B level prospects, possibly a couple A levels, one of which I guarantee will eventually outperform mantha.

Russell is horrible and needs to be paid four million dollars for another year. That’s a lot for a 6-7 d man.

Stop with the BS crap for Mantha? Mantha easily cost one of Nurse or Bouchard/Broberg and either a 2020/2021 1st round pick period. This trash isn't getting done we need quality over quantity.

Nope.

He actually only gets paid $1.5M next year. If he gets moved it'll likely be after his $1M summer bonus gets paid out on July 1st.

Yeah face reality dude, It would easily cost one of those pieces for Mantha rather you like it or not. That trash is nowhere near enough to get Mantha out of Detroit period. It's a major joke and this guy know's nothing about value.

So many problems with this, but I'll just highlight one:

You have 4 high-end players (DeBrincat, Mantha, Strome and Bear) who all need new contracts next summer and not a lot of cap space. What's worse is that you gave away a cheap 3LD for an expensive 3LD who can't actually defend and has 4 years left on his deal. You've painted yourself into a corner.

Nope.

*******

Blue Bullet Brad
@BlueBullet1981
·
38m
The most common comparable for Evan Bouchard is John Carlson. This is how they performed in their D+2 season.

John Carlson

AHL 48-4-35-39
NHL 22-1-5-6

Evan Bouchard D+2

AHL 50-7-26-33

*******

Bouchard was recalled yesterday. The Oilers have 22 games left. I doubt they'd trade Bouchard for Mantha straight up.

You think your diehard redwings name make you know a lot. You don’t known anything about value.

Why would a cap team like Calgary care about actual money owed? That only comes into play when dealing with teams like Ottawa that won’t spend to the cap. Cap space is so much more important than money owed to nearly every team in the league

A big part of the Neal-Lucic swap was the $10M in actual cash saved by the Flames. Ownership has to spend $275M on a new arena, so cash savings are important to them.

Are you just making this up as you go? That’s blatantly made up.

I said the same thing when I saw that awful Mantha trade. So we now both agree Mantha is NOT GOING TO Edmonton.

From past conversations I figured you were pretty smart, but NOPE is the best you can come up with?????????

Bouchard has a sky-high ceiling, Edmonton isn't going to package him up with a 1st for anything other than a game-changing talent. I like Mantha and would like him on Edmonton, but he's nowhere near value for that package.

Here are some well-known defensemen drafted out of the OHL over the past 20 years and their P/GP in that league, regular season and playoffs:

Draft Year
Ellis: 1.56 / 1.55
Bouchard: 1.30 / 1.25
Fowler: 1.00 / 0.74
Ekblad: 0.91 / 0.67
Pietrangelo: 0.88 / 1.50
Hamilton: 0.87 / 1.14
Doughty: 0.86 / 0.90
Sergachev: 0.85 / 1.00
Subban: 0.82 / 0.87
Nurse: 0.60 / 0.67
Burns: 0.59 / 1.00


Draft +1
Hamilton: 1.44 / 1.15
Ellis: 1.27 / 1.74
Carlson: 1.29 / 1.57
Bouchard: 1.18 / 1.91
Sergachev: 0.86 / 0.43
Pietrangelo: 0.81 / 0.50
Subban: 0.79 / 1.10
Nurse: 0.78 / 0.89

*********

Blue Bullet Brad
@BlueBullet1981
·
38m
The most common comparable for Evan Bouchard is John Carlson. This is how they performed in their D+2 season.

John Carlson

AHL 48-4-35-39
NHL 22-1-5-6

Evan Bouchard D+2

AHL 50-7-26-33

**********

Some others who spent time in the AHL:
Burns: 73, 11-16-27 (draft+2)
Ellis: 29, 4- 14-18 (draft+3)
Subban: 77, 18-35-53 (draft+3)

I figured you were smart enough that I wouldn't have to explain. Diehard, OTOH...

That's more like it and I do agree. The point I was trying to make is Mantha is untouchable unless it's a massive overpay like the trade I suggested. Do you really think the offer above gets Mantha?

Today, no. It's not close. But Jones is playing top-4 now, if his stellar play continues his value will rise. Samorukov, similarly, is looking good and has started to get more ice time in his rookie pro season, if things break right he could have real value this time next year. McLeod has 3C upside, but there's no telling if he'll ever get there.

So there's too much risk right now for Detroit to even consider such a trade. It could make them a better team, but the risk is high and the reward several years away.

Easy no from Yzerman.

When I say Jones is playing top-4, what I meant is that he's played 1 game in the top-4, with Adam Larsson as his partner. Against the Bruins. Talk about a trial by fire.

Still, his stat line looked okay:

14:07 TOI at 5v5 (2nd among defensemen)
68.00 CF%
75.00 SF%
No goals for or against
75.89 xGF%
71.42 HDCF%
40.00 o-zone start %

With McLeod he should be absolutely tearing up the AHL with his size and he is an excellent skater and he has skill. Attitude and drive can't be coached he either wants to be there or he doesn't. Most of the scouting reports I've read on Jones have him 3rd pair guy but he is a good hands and is a good skater he either has to realize he has the ability to add more offensively or get more comfortable to start contributing more offensively. Either way he has the tools and ability to contribute more offensively he just needs to do it and then he easily be a 2nd pair defenseman. It's kind of like Jensen who is on the Caps formerly with the Wings great skater decent hands every now and then he'd rush fly by the forwards put a move on a defenseman and set up a great goal then he'd go a game or 2 with no offense.

I agree mostly, but I think the difference between a 3rd pairing guy and a 2nd pairing guy is defense, not offense. That's why guys like Gostisbehere, Barrie, Colin Miller, Fox and Sergachev - despite the ability to put up gaudy numbers - are 3rd pairing defensemen. Having superior skating ability (as Jones does) certainly helps in the transition to 2nd pairing, and defensive zone coverage / reads can be taught. I don't doubt guys like Fox and Sergachev will eventually become 2nd pairing guys, but the jury is still out on Jones.

First off DeBrincat is already signed long term. Strome will sign a 5.5x6 and Mantha will sign a 6x6. If Ghostisbehere gets his play to what it used to be the. That trade will be a steal and that 4.5 m will seem cheap.

1. Where is all that cap space coming from?
2. $4.5M for a 3rd pairing defenseman is NOT cheap, no matter how you slice it.