That is a terrible trade for the isles

Vancouver said they weren’t talking to the Isles about Miller. Beauvillier was in Montreal for the draft and greeted all the new players. The Isles interest in Miller is completely fabricated and pretending it isn’t on capfriendly won’t change that.

Not a hope Van listens to this.

Vancouver has no interest in this offer at all . Zero

people on here are hilarious

The last thing the isles need is to throw away assets for a rental winger exiting his prime. The only way a 1st makes sense if it’s for a forward 25 or under with term. The team you constructed wouldn’t make the playoffs

jt miller just had the best season of his career with 99 points at age 28.......what are you talking about?

A players prime is 22-28 years old, players start to decline at 29-30 YO. That’s a big reason why the isles missed the playoffs last season, isles have too many forwards approaching or on the wrong side of 30. This team is pretty much on the San Jose sharks trajectory, doubling down on old forwards and can’t make the playoffs

It’s also why they’ll miss next season, Colorado had 4 players in their top 6 in their prime, when Tampa won the cup last year they had 3 players in their prime in the top 6.

tough take

There is evidence to support my take, they were the 2nd oldest team in the league last season, they couldn’t beat playoff teams because the roster is too old. Same thing is going to happen again next season. Holding on to the worst 4th line in hockey for dear life, but no problem trading Toews (a Norris caliber defenseman) for scraps

They were the 2nd oldest team in the league because they had a 45 year old and a 39 year old on the team who will not be there any longer. The lazy narrative that the isles are too old to compete next year is ridiculous.

Toews trade obviously looks terrible now but let’s not just pretend he was a norris caliber defenseman at the time he was traded. He was also coming off an awful playoffs where he looked out of place against Tampa. Not to mention they then went back to the ecf and lost by a goal in game 7 to tampa after essentially replacing toews with andy greene and that spot is now filled by romanov but i’m not even sure why he was brought up here though tbh.

Also saying they have the worst 4th line in hockey is odd. Martin looked bad last year but wasn’t healthy. Cizikas and clutter both for the most part looked themselves. Cizikas had a bit if a down year but definitely didn’t lose a step or anything. If martin looks shot again this year even with a healthy offseason then they replace him, which shouldn’t be too big of an issue to fill a 4th line wing spot.

Teams that have as many 30 year old FORWARDS as the isles can't compete. Go look at the true cup contenders and see the average age of their top 6. The isles have an extremely old forward group.

it was actually easy to see that Toews was on a Norris caliber trajectory, it was just a brutal fail in player evaluation by lou and trotz , at the time of the trade he was an elite two way defenseman. The narrative that Toews looked out of place against Tampa is false, he had a few brutal turnovers. Hedman looked like a pylon during this past playoff run, maybe they should trade him for two 2nd rd picks.The funny thing is Andy Greene was 10x worse than Toews against Tampa but it doesn't get talked about because isles fans just want to try to justify trading an elite defenseman.

Here are Toews numbers at the time of the trade. It's pretty clear he was already elite.

Devon Toews, traded to COL, is an exceptional two-way defencemen who has put up absolutely elite results at both ends of the ice in top four minutes. #GoAvsGo pic.twitter.com/GSvHk7uM2q

— JFresh (@JFreshHockey) October 12, 2020

They were the worst 4th line in the NHL last season. Cizikas definitely lost a step, he was the biggest problem on the 4th line, his play driving ability has declined drastically. That's why you don't give 31 year old 4th liners 6 year deals. You can fill those spots for for 1-2 years in free agency.

Acting like a team can’t compete if they have forwards in their 30’s is just insane. This roster has only 4 forwards older than 31.

bailey - 32, martin - 32, clutter - 34, and parise - 37

The oldest player on that list was one of the teams best players last year. Just because they have old players doesn’t mean those players can’t still play.

I loved toews and wasn’t happy with the trade at the time either but absolutely nobody thought he was a norris caliber defenseman at the time idc how many charts you show me. Saying he didn’t look out of place in that tampa series is also crazy, he was their worst defenseman in that series by a lot - again not saying he should’ve been dealt for what he was but it’s just dumb to dawn on that move still, it happened and you just have to look forward - they just brought in a 22 year old defenseman to fill that void.

In regards to cizikas, i’m not sure what chart you looked at to tell you that he definitely lost a step but I’d suggest going back and watching the guy skate because although he had a down year he definitely didn’t lose a step.

This isn't my opinion, it's a fact. Teams like the islanders will a bunch of 30 year old forwards (it's hilarious that you increased the age to 31 to fit your narrative) cannot compete. Clearly isles fans are oblivious to aging curves, over 90% of forwards start to decline by the time they hit 30. I guess you haven't been following free agency over the years, most long term deals end up as albatross contracts.

Parise is a great bottom 6 forward and he has exceptional work ethic, the fact that you admitted he was one of their better players just proves my point. He had a solid 3rd line impact and he was better than half the forwards. Get it now?

No you are completely wrong, many people knew he was an elite top pair defenseman at the time, including the Avs. That is a fact, obviously if you're an elite defenseman at 26 YO it's likely you will be on a Norris trajectory. Those charts are a main reason why the Avs acquired Toews and many other good players, Isles and their fans are stuck in the the past. Teams who use analytics are the best teams in the NHL. Andy Greene was their worst defensman in that series, he couldn't keep up with Tampa, his turnover led to Kucherov scoring the game winning goal with 10 sec left in the 3rd in game 2.

I don't want to move on, I knew he was an elite defenseman at the time and I want isles fans to continue to hear how bad of a trade it was. It's going to go down as one of the worst trades in NHL history.

I look at the same charts Colorado and Tampa use before they trade/sign a player, is there a problem with that? Cizikas spent most of his ice time scrambling in the defensive zone and the easiest way to see he's lost a step is his terrible penalty differential. Players who lose a step take bad penalties because they can't keep up with speed of the game.

Charts are useful when working with what you’re looking at. I definitely look at them too but acting as if what the charts say are definitive is not how those teams operate. Looking at charts and nothing else is how you end up in a situation like Toronto where you have talent but not the right chemistry or grind to win in the playoffs (also see tampa the year the were swept by the jackets & the rangers difference between the past 2 years).

Saying a team can’t win because of players being in their 30’s is absolutely not “fact”. This is an absurd take as you’re basically saying no matter who the players are, if they are over 30 they are worthless and unproductive. And yes i changed it to 31 because that is not old. You seem to be stuck in a mindset that you don’t want to pay players over 30 just because certain other free agent contracts haven't worked out but I’m not not sure what that has to do with current players in their very low 30s being able to produce. Based on your standards it wasn’t even possible for parise to produce the way he did last year given his age.

Again you are only referencing charts as it comes to aging curves rather than looking at how the players years went. The “core” of those “old” players started the season very slowly due to ****ty circumstances between injuries and covid (lee, palmieri, and bailey) and all finished the season looking like themselves again.

You keep referring to andy greene being the worst defenseman in the latest ecf they were in and I’m also not sure why. I would sure expect him to be the worst defenseman in that series considering he was the islanders worst defenseman and I don’t know a single person who didn’t think that or expect that at the time and after - when toews did that the year before it was definitely not expected. Get it now?