Buddy this makes no sense.
Saying that there is a market is not the same as anything you held up as an example, and the fact you believe they are says a lot about you - none if it good.

Your argument is the same old **** that has never held true for leafs trades because its based on the idea that Toronto is in cap hell which has not been true in the dubas era and frankly was hardly true in the Lou era.

We know kerf is intrinsically more valued than this offer. This isn't up for debate - your position is one that he will get an artificially lower return due to cap issues. When teams have multiple suitors with a valuable player and their hand isn't forced (and the leafs aren't no matter what morons on CF tell you) they tend to get a nice return.

This has proven true with kapanen, mango (2nd round pick was on the table from reports - they went with Anderson instead), etc. All directly comparable to the kerf situation and values.

People like you never learn, which is why when an 85% chance of what I'm saying comes true you always freak out.

Just watch. O/U is a 3rd round pick. It'll be over if he moves I promise you that

again: this argument is backed up by nothing, nothing, and even more nothing.

Kapanen is a bad comp because when he was traded, he was a 24 year old with 2x$3.2M left on his deal + RFA rights. Kerfoot is 28 years old and being paid $3.5M in his walk year. Toronto also took back cap in that trade(Evan Rodrigues), which clearly contributed to the stronger return they got. Pittsburgh only added $1.2M to their cap with that deal; almost every proposal on this board has Kerfoot going out with only futures coming back, meaning any acquiring team is eating nearly triple the amount of cap in a potential deal. Even without the trade market being the way it currently is, I'm sure you can see how that's gonna depress value.

And again, you say "reports" said a 2nd was on the table for Johnsson - why would they take Joey Anderson then? Anderson was already 22 and 4 years removed from being a 3rd round pick who had showed next to nothing at the NHL level (8-5-13 in 52 GP, averaging 13 minutes a night on middle-6 lines with guys like Miles Wood, Travis Zajac, and Jack Hughes). If Dubas passed up a 2nd rounder to take a non-prospect like Anderson, he's crazy - or, more likely, there was nothing that good on the table for a guy making $3.4M in an flat-cap world (sound familiar?)

My argument is backed up by historical examples of trades made in the same situation with a similar calibre of player - all made by the same team and gm. It's also backed up by insiders reporting which has been fairly substantial all summer about this. You pretending otherwise reflects poorly.

Kapanen got 15th overall +.
I'm not saying kerf could do that. That's your value difference. But 50+ point players who do everything tend to be well valued in the nhl, and often go for a late 1st at the deadline.

Erods contract was up. You are literally making **** up to try and justify your point. There were no cap savings for pgh from that. Hell Erod signed WITH the pens in UFA that year!

They took Anderson because they liked him better than anyone in that draft. Go look at the 2nd round from the trade year its a wasteland. And even if they were wrong on a guy development wise it doesn't change the fact that it was available.
You can't look back on a trade with hindsight and conclude there were no better options available.
Kerfoot is also better than mango coming off a significantly better season too

Your whole argument stems from illegitimate points, ignoring evidence, and logical fallacies. Enough of your garbage. O/U is a 3rd and if a move happens it will be OVER. Bookmark this

my fault on the ERod trade - it happened on 8/25/20, which in every other year would have been a post-UFA trade, but obviously wasn't in 2020. my mistake.

and again: if your GM liked 22 year old Joey Anderson with 13 points in 52 NHL games better than anyone in the 2nd round in 2020, i have serious questions about his scouting acumen. here's some dudes selected in the 2nd round in 2020: JJ Peterka (68 points in 70 AHL games as a 19-year-old last year), Brock Faber (the prospect Minnesota wanted in the Kevin Fiala trade), Thomas Bordelau (37 pts in 37 GP as a sophomore at Michigan before debuting with 5 points in 8 NHL games as a 19-year-old), plus other names that get thrown around these boards as desired trade assets: Roby Jarventie, Joel Blomqvist, Helge Grans, Ryan O'Rourke, even a guy named Roni Hirvonen. It's silly to say that round was a "wasteland" when almost every dude drafted in that round just turned 20 this year. Any one of those dudes would have at least had more upside than Joey Anderson. I stand by my original point: it's more likely than not that there was no 2nd rounder on the table and Dubas just took what he could get to dump Johnsson's $3.4M cap hit.

Your whole argument comes from pointing to a couple trades from two summers ago, that were completed much earlier in the offseason, and in a much different cap environment. Acting like the trades that happened to move cap this summer are completely irrelevant is the only evidence I see being ignored in this thread.

all i can ask you from then is: from who. who, in the next 4 days, is giving up a 3rd(or better) for a middle-6 guy with a $3.5M cap hit that has some control over where he can go (ie, not a guy you can just dump on Arizona)? because i don't see many other avenues for this team to become cap compliant by 5 PM Monday.

Leafs can run lean to be cap compliant as is. No trade needs to be made. I've been vocal since early last year that kerf makes sense to move but at this point I'm not convinced he will be, not now anyway.
And just about every team could want him. He is a good player and isn't overpaid or anything. Depends on what that team wants and what the leafs want to do.

Also I think the pick would have been for the next year as the draft had already happened I think

FWIW, went with the 2020 draft because Johnsson was traded a couple days after it (I checked my 2020 dates to make sure this time), so I would assume if a 2nd was on the table it would've been for that. The 2021 2nd round wasn't all that bad either - there are Canes fans on this board that will tell you Scott Morrow is going to be the next Cale Makar, obviously I personally think Aatu Raty is a steal at 52 overall, Matthew Knies was a couple picks later at 57 - I just keep coming back to the idea that if a 2nd was on the table (for either 2020 or 2021) and Dubas took Joey Anderson instead, I'd be furious with him - Anderson hadn't done anything to show he'd me more than a bottom-6 guy in extended NHL opportunity by that point, which is much less valuable than a 2nd rounder to me.

At the end of the day, we do agree on one thing - in a vacuum, the Leafs should be keeping Kerfoot. Tavares is getting older and has been banged up a few times over the past year and a half, so having a guy who can reliably spell him is important. I think if anyone gets waived from the forward group, it's Pierre Engvall - he's in that weird spot where his cap hit is just high enough that most teams won't want to claim him while also not being important enough to really sting if someone *does* claim him. i don't like the idea of running a short roster, but I think I'd rather have a 21ish man roster with Alex Kerfoot than a 23 man roster with Engvall.

Oh boy do other fan bases ever undervalue engvall. The dude is such a hidden gem and the fact that he manges to be that on the Maple Leafs is impressive. Much rather engvall. Cheaper kerfoot who can play everywhere and has much better analytics to boot.

(I think both are gone next year in UFA for the young guys btw, big part of why i want to move kerf at high value)

part of me thinks there *was* a deal for Kerfoot on the table over the summer and it fell apart for whatever reason - I can't see why Dubas would go out and sign Calle Jarnkrok to 4x$2.1M with a full NTC when dude is an older, less productive version of Kerfoot (middle-6, can play C or wing, kills penalties, 30ish pts per year) unless he thought he was going to be moving on from Kerfoot and wanted to try and replace him at a discount.

Either way, the Leafs are probably the most interesting team to watch this weekend - they're right there with the Oilers in terms of contenders who need to cut cap and have no easy ways to get there. I don't think you can rule out the possibility of Robidas Island returning in the very near future - just not sure who will be its newest inhabitants