You’ve ignored everything two people have put in front of you and doubled down on Durzi not being worth a first because he’s not a big hitter like chiarot.

Durzi is worth what teams would be willing to pay for a 24 year old, 40-45 pace puck mover with MULTIPLE years of cheap, cap control would fetch LA a first.
If fabbro is close to catching nashville a high tier second or a low end first, and all he’s done has ride on josi’s back since his time in nashville, durzi will be MUCH more valuable.
durzi is worth a 1st.

How did I ignore It when I literally explained how they were different? You make no sense. I explained to you why GMs value guys like Chiarot and you dont want to believe it because "points" and at the same time ignore guys like DeAngelo (who was almost PPG) & Gustafson not getting 1sts. It's clear you want to throw any context out the window because it hurts your argument.

Actually watch the guy play before you go "40-45 points must be a FIRST" like a parrot. You should go let Holland know that he can get a 1st+ for Tyson Barrie.

Alright lets break it down for you then? You might need to hear some of these points again

I don't know why you used Barrie to make me look bad? Barrie and Durzi are two completely different players.
Barrie 31 making 4.5m and Durzi is 24 making 1.7m and an expiring RFA after next season. Barrie won't catch EDM a first. I know that?

Also, since you think I'M throwing out context, you seem to forget two MAJOR (I'll say it again, MAJOR) factors in keeping Durzi's price high. Yet, you've never acknowledged it?
He's very team friendly and has a ton of cap control. 1.7m until after next season and an expiring RFA. If LA WAS to put him on the market, this wouldn't be a TDL rental. He would be a literal investment a team would make on him. Not to mention, he's right handed and can play on both defensive sides. Which many teams at this moment are heavily interested in. That alone drives his price higher. Throwing context out? Kind of hypocritical of you DongLord.

You seem to be clinging on to Gustafson and DeAngelo, so lets go over some other defenseman in comparable, all who got their teams big packages.
Romanov received a 1st. (Definitely didn't stand out on Montreal, but he was young and cheap, very big factors in driving that value)
Ristolainen, not too long ago, received a first and a second. (Risto was an average 40pt defenseman with terrible defensive metrics, and still got a pretty package, and around the time he was traded, he somehow looked worse)
Brady Skjei, at the 2020 deadline received a 1st. (was an average 20pt back end player with average defensive numbers, not a whole lot better than Durzi. He's stepped his game up drastically in Carolina, but we're speaking when he was traded)
Nils Lundqvist received a 1st (even if he logged 13 minutes per night, he still looked iffy on what was a stacked NYR team. Teams weren't willing to bite on a 22 year old whos game might not translate to american ice. only two years younger than durzi and both have around a similar ceiling. but he still got his package when everybody assumed he'd be worth only a 2nd or a middle 6 forward.
What about David Savard? Arguable even WORSE at what he does than Chiarot and received a 1st AND a 2nd? Was a -19 on CBJ before he was traded and ended up being a -8 on tampa (since you like using +/-)
Or how Fabbro, if sold, will probably snag Nashville a late 1st?

In the eyes of everybody else BESIDES you...
you're just wrong my friend.

DeAngelo was an RFA & Gustafson was making 1.2M? Why didn't they get 1sts?

Barrie is on pace for 55-60 points? Why wouldn't he get a 1st?



"You seem to be clinging on to Gustafson and DeAngelo, so lets go over some other defenseman in comparable, all who got their teams big packages.
Romanov received a 1st. (Definitely didn't stand out on Montreal, but he was young and cheap, very big factors in driving that value)
Ristolainen, not too long ago, received a first and a second. (Risto was an average 40pt defenseman with terrible defensive metrics, and still got a pretty package, and around the time he was traded, he somehow looked worse)
Brady Skjei, at the 2020 deadline received a 1st. (was an average 20pt back end player with average defensive numbers, not a whole lot better than Durzi. He's stepped his game up drastically in Carolina, but we're speaking when he was traded)
Nils Lundqvist received a 1st (even if he logged 13 minutes per night, he still looked iffy on what was a stacked NYR team. Teams weren't willing to bite on a 22 year old whos game might not translate to american ice. only two years younger than durzi and both have around a similar ceiling. but he still got his package when everybody assumed he'd be worth only a 2nd or a middle 6 forward.
What about David Savard? Arguable even WORSE at what he does than Chiarot and received a 1st AND a 2nd? Was a -19 on CBJ before he was traded and ended up being a -8 on tampa (since you like using +/-)
Or how Fabbro, if sold, will probably snag Nashville a late 1st?"

You literally just repeated what the other guy said that I already responded to. I'll repeat the same response

> This is when I can tell someone doesn't watch games lol. Just blindly comparing d men who are very different from each other. Durzi isn't some big physical 6'5 guy that GMs drool over (Risto). He's not a defensive d man that has almost more hits this season than durzi has in his career (Romanov). He isn't 22 years old prospect that won SHL d men of the year (Lundqivst).

The man that thinks every defenceman that is on pace for 40 points is worth a 1st lmao. I'll call up Dubas and let him know to trade Timmins for a first+ at the deadline. I mean he's got team control and 10 points in 13 games. On pace for 60 points. Should get a kings ransom.

Why do you keep bringing up what GM's drool over when GM's are also willing to pay big prices for dmen who ARENT physical?
You're literally the most massive hypocrite ever lmfao. Calling out others for dismissing claims when you blindly ignore things. Stop looking so surface level. Also calling out others for not watching the games when its very clear that you never watch anything outside of your own team.

DeAngelo has an attitude problem (I'm hoping you at least know THIS), which visibly carried over in Carolina. He also had some iffy moments in the playoffs where he let his attitude get the better of him, and it cost his team in moments. (shooting the puck in the net after the whistle blew, throwing his stick at marchand, his blatant cross check on Lazar after the whistle blew)
With him, you're getting a talented PP quarterback, but his personality is a major question mark, which lowered his value. Teams didn't want to pay big price for him because of his brutal track record, and STILL received a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, which is no small price.

Gustafson is similar to Durzi, but not quite. His 60pt season in Chicago saw him shooting at a whopping 10.8%, which is pretty high for a defenseman, especially of his caliber.
The season after, which he was traded, saw his numbers fall back down to earth. A 6.1 shooting% and 26pts in 59 games. Very easy to tell his one season may have been a fluke. All of this, while having terrible defensive metrics, worse than Durzi.

In the same season he was traded, he was also 27 years old, which makes him....wait for it... a rental. I don't know if you're aware, but there's a massive difference between a 27 year old TDL rental and a 24 year old expiring RFA locked in at a multi-year deal.

Yeah... but I'm the one who doesn't watch games LMFAO

Also,
I don't know if you're being dense on purpose, or trying to prove some sort of a point,

But Barrie is older, more expensive and worse defensively than Durzi. No team is interested in Barrie. His game is also progressively getting worse as he ages.

Also stop bringing up hits as if that says much? Players like Chiarot or Romanov are on opposite sides of the defensive spectrum to Durzi. Both types of players can fetch big prices if the need is there. If a team wants a big, stay at home player, they'll pay up. If a team wants a smaller, puck mover, they'll pay up.

Also also... haha... funny Timmins comment. His value was close to 0 because that's simply what he was worth at the time he was traded. He's producing well on Toronto, great. If his production carries over at the end of the season and into the playoffs, it'll definitely drive up his value (if dubas somehow wanted to flip him). Young, cheap, and point producing.

It's just the inability to see both sides for you, at this point.

Why didn't those guys get 1sts? Tony D had 50 points in 60 games? Easily a 1st no?

I don't care if you don't value hits. GMs do. Big physical d man are harder to find than smaller puck movers.

Ok I'll make an armchair GM trading Timmins for a 1st. I'm sure everyone will agree.

It’s hard for some fans to accept what GMs think of players
I’m not saying Durzi isn’t worth a 1st because of the Lundkvist trade, but I’m not sure a lot of GMs would be calling and proposing their 1st round pick for him. But I’m not saying it’s impossible because of the Lundkvist trade

Thanks for continuing to prove you're a hypocrite not capable of listening to other points or critically thinking. I'm also convinced you can't read.

"Ok I'll make an armchair GM trading Timmins for a 1st. I'm sure everyone will agree"
I never said his value was a first at this moment? He's near PPG right now, and if you can read, I said if he finishes the season with the same level of production, his value will drive itself up. Especially for him only being 24.

"I don't care if you don't value hits. GMs do. Big physical d man are harder to find than smaller puck movers."
Blatantly wrong. Physical, stay at home defenseman are much more common than productive puck movers. But, I literally explained to you how both of those type of players are on opposite ends of the spectrum. If there is a need for either, the value will always be there/

"Why didn't those guys get 1sts? Tony D had 50 points in 60 games? Easily a 1st no?"
If you looked at my other reply, I told you why DeAngelo and Gustafson didn't receive firsts.
Here it is:

"DeAngelo has an attitude problem (I'm hoping you at least know THIS), which visibly carried over in Carolina. He also had some iffy moments in the playoffs where he let his attitude get the better of him, and it cost his team in moments. (shooting the puck in the net after the whistle blew, throwing his stick at marchand, his blatant cross check on Lazar after the whistle blew)
With him, you're getting a talented PP quarterback, but his personality is a major question mark, which lowered his value. Teams didn't want to pay big price for him because of his brutal track record, and STILL received a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, which is no small price.

Gustafson is similar to Durzi, but not quite. His 60pt season in Chicago saw him shooting at a whopping 10.8%, which is pretty high for a defenseman, especially of his caliber.
The season after, which he was traded, saw his numbers fall back down to earth. A 6.1 shooting% and 26pts in 59 games. Very easy to tell his one season may have been a fluke. All of this, while having terrible defensive metrics, worse than Durzi.
In the same season he was traded, he was also 27 years old, which makes him....wait for it... a rental. I don't know if you're aware, but there's a massive difference between a 27 year old TDL rental and a 24 year old expiring RFA locked in at a multi-year deal."


You're just making yourself look more ignorant.

If you're so keen on making an ACGM. Make one with any team and trade for Durzi for anything less than a 1st, if you really wanna see what people agree with LOL.
I'm sure that'll fly over well.

It seems, after reading all of your replies, that Durzi wouldn't be worth a first because he's smaller and not 6'4 and physical...
sure... if you think that... ?

I know you like glossing over things, but make sure to read my explanations on DeAngelo and Gustafson, you need them.

Why wouldn't it be? He's on pace for 60 points. Puck moving guy that's team control. If he finishes the season with the same production he'd be worth multiple 1sts.

"Blatantly wrong. Physical, stay at home defenseman are much more common than productive puck movers."

They're not. Big stay at home guys that can play big minutes are hard to find. You can find smaller offensive puck movers much easier. AHL is filled with them.

"DeAngelo has an attitude problem (I'm hoping you at least know THIS), which visibly carried over in Carolina. He also had some iffy moments in the playoffs where he let his attitude get the better of him, and it cost his team in moments. (shooting the puck in the net after the whistle blew, throwing his stick at marchand, his blatant cross check on Lazar after the whistle blew)"

If GMs valued d men like you apparently do he'd be worth multiple 1sts. He's not the only guy with some attitude concerns in NHL history. GMs usually don't care. C'mon Mr. Evander Kane you should know that.

"Gustafson is similar to Durzi, but not quite. His 60pt season in Chicago saw him shooting at a whopping 10.8%, which is pretty high for a defenseman, especially of his caliber.
The season after, which he was traded, saw his numbers fall back down to earth. A 6.1 shooting% and 26pts in 59 games. Very easy to tell his one season may have been a fluke. All of this, while having terrible defensive metrics, worse than Durzi."

26 points in 59 games is pretty close to where Durzi is right now when you adjust for the higher scoring. Why wouldn't he be way more than a 3rd?

You can even add Justin Schultz to the discussion. Young guy. RFA. Cheap contract. Why did he just get a 3rd?

" he was also 27 years old, which makes him....wait for it... a rental."

Why would that matter? Chiarot was a rental. He got a 1st. Why did he get a 3rd and Chiarot got a 1st?

Hear me out. GMs don't value guys like this that highly. Idk maybe im crazy.

Jesus man, you can’t be this dense can you?

DeAngelo isn’t the only player with attitude concerns, but he has one of the worst track records, and is a complete liability in the playoffs and under any circumstance where he’s required to remain poised. This drove his value to the ground, the same reason he had a 50pt season with the rangers and they just let him walk into the open market. are you forgetting that?

Gustafson’s production fell with a brutal shooting percentage the year after his 60pt season, and was completely lost in his own end defensively. Combine that with being 27 and a rental drove his value down.
Durzi isn’t the greatest defensively, but is nowhere near as bad as Gustafson was back then.

I just genuinely don’t think you realize it lmfao.

also

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/666928?post_id=3785333

let’s see then?

Durzi is the same liability that DeAngelo is. You'd know that if you watched him play. He has 2x better production than Durzi so it shouldn't be an issue for him to get a 1st.

Similar production is the difference between a 1st & and 3rd? How does that make sense

Congrats on Homer kings fans telling you their player is worth more than they actually are.

The same guy that told me Henrik Borgstrom is worth more than Dylan Cozens a year ago lmao. Might have the worst takes on this site.

love proving homer leaf fans wrong, multiple people who WERENT kings fans also agreed.

you’re wrong. i love it

Where? It's literally only Kings fans.

What does that prove? It's funny how hard you are trying. Thanks for the laughs.

He's not worth a 1st for anyone that isn't completely biased.

you wrong.

someone should really teach you the weight of how contracts work, though. like, genuinely.

your only two compared players were gustafson and deangelo, which were horrible to compare durzi to because of their circumstances.

then you stupidly said “i guess if timmins gets 50 points he’ll be worth a kings ransom”. you are a clown man. you are lost in your own little toronto fantasy world where you are in an echo chamber.

I can’t wait for ghost to receive a first at the TDL.

I'm tired of running in circles with you, so I'll break it down one final time. After that. I'm done responding.
Maybe this way, it'll help you moving forward.

GM's don't value big players like YOU think they do. If you're a serviceable defenseman and can play in the top 4, regardless "uhh he big and eat minutes. small player get point not big price"
Your caveman brain needs to start clicking and you need to stop watching Cherry's podcast.

No, DeAngelo wasn't worth a 1st. He's a complete headcase who cant control his own emotions in the playoffs. Nobody wants that when its like the one thing that matters in the playoffs; being poised.
No, Gustafson was not worth a 1st. He had one good season, then sloped the next season, and was a complete and utter waste in his own end. Durzi, in that regard, is at least somewhat competent. I don't know what YOUVE been watching this season, but he's actually been playing pretty good the past 2 months.
Gustafson was also 27

If we want to expand our compared players and look at forwards, young players like Hagel will get two 1sts, despite not anyone's idea of "top players".
You want to know why? Because of contracts. I genuinely don't know why you REFUSE to grasp how contracts are valued among the league.

If a defenseman is 24, producing at a good pace, locked under a sub 2m cap hit for the next 2 seasons AND an expiring RFA,
that entire circumstance is worth a 1st MINIMUM. Seriously consider that and let it sit in your head for a couple of minutes.

No, Timmins is not worth a first right now because of a small sample size and his injury history. With a 50 point season, yeah, most likely.

You are lost, man. Absolutely lost.

You posting an armchair GM and getting just 3 kings fans and acting like you proved a point is hilarious.

I think Colin Miller is worth a 1st! 3 Sabres fans agree with me!

Might be the funniest thing I've seen on here

I just can't take you seriously.

Tony D & Gustafson (actually pretty similar styles) are horrible comparisons but you bring up Chiarot...

You're trying so hard to win an argument and everything you say just falls flat. You just don't understand how differently GMs value offensive d men and defensive d men. It's why Colin Miller got no takers at the TDL & Chiarot got a 1st. It's why Gavrikov, Schenn, and Edmundson likely will get more than Klingberg at the TDL. GMs don't base value solely on box scores. There's really nothing more that has to be said. Believe what you want.

You sure about that?

Maybe 99.9%

Every wondered why to Arizona? LAK need to clear cap lol. It's a desperation move. Same reason they flipped their 5m goalie and had to retain on a player they have no business retaining.

1st round pick minimum

"I can't read context"

Take the L and move on