Unfortunately the Pens don't have the prospect quality to compete with the other teams involved.

That said, this is not so great. POJ is proving to be a legit top-four dman and is on an ELC. Dumoulin is the weak link, not POJ.

I'm not as high on POJ as most people seem to be. I seriously doubt he will ever be a first-pairing guy and he's only a year and half younger than Chychrun who is a legit top-pair defenseman. Moving POJ and Smith (rather than this year's first) in order to get a legit top-4 D makes a ton of sense to me.

Well, no offense, while you may not be high POJ, the actual facts of his play are real and he's incredibly effective. Nobody thought Pettersson would ever be a 1st pairing dman and he's shown this year that he is.

Money is also at play here. You don't move Chychrun at the expense of POJ. If the Pens went after him, which they won't, you look to keep both and find another way. Chych, Petts and POJ down the left side would be incredibl and affordable.

Your asset-management in this is just flawed.

Lol. Ok. If POJ is as good as you say, then why did he play all of 11 minutes last night in an incredibly fast-paced game that went to OT? Why is he on the 3rd pair? Why doesn't he play on the PP or the PK?

Look, I'm not against him. I think he has potential, and I agree that he's a good young player filling a need on the 3rd pair. But you've got to give in order to get, and POJ will never be a top pair defenseman like Chychrun is. The asking price is reportedly two firsts and a prospect or (equivalent value) for Chychrun for a reason.

I'd much rather trade Smith and POJ than let go of our first overall pick this year in such a deep draft. Most experts project both Smith and POJ to be bottom pairing defenseman at this point in their development with 2nd pair potential. Practically nobody expects them to play top pairing minutes.

So you think Dumoulin should be playing 25 minutes?

Also, POJ doesn't play special teams which affects his minutes. He's still a rookie and Sullivan is simply developing him.

I think Dumoulin played 25 minutes because they don't have another option for a top pairing defenseman. Hence the point of this post. They need a top-2 LD like Chychrun really badly. Dumoulin has played better as of late and would likely be much more effective playing more like 15 minutes a night.

As for developing Joseph, I hear you, but Joseph is older than Pettersson was when he first arrived and only a year younger than Makar and Chychrun. Think about that. Joseph is the same age as Makar was last season when he won the Norris and the Conn Smyth. Of course he's can improve, but he's not going to be much better than he is now. 23 is old for a prospect these days. You're talking about trading two bottom six defenseman for a top pairing defenseman. If anything, what I'm offering here is not enough to get the deal done.

Your last sentence. It's a 2023 1st, 2024 1st and Pickering at a minimum for non-rental Chychrun who is signed through 24-25. Then you have to figure out the cap. You asked.

Thanks. Yeah, I think my question is do Smith and POJ combined have the same value as a 1st pick? If I'm the Pens, I would rather take my chances on getting a prospect who may have a higher ceiling 5 years from now when the big guys are starting to hang up their skates.