Doesn't make sense for SJ. Swayman's value is at an all-time high, he'll likely regress back to a a solid .915 goaltender, meanwhile he was only make sense going to SJ if they were a competitive team, which they have no shot at being without Hertl.

And for the love of god, I get that Forbort and Grzelcyk are solid enough players, but the last thing the Sharks need is another LD

Hertl's not a player Boston wants be paying 8+ mil for that long

Funny … I actually believe Swayman’s value is probably at the lowest it’s going to be for the 8 years. I also view San Jose’s goalie situation as the worst in the league and seriously debated whether Hertl was worth Swayman. Part of me hesitates every time I saw it mentioned. I doubt that Sweeney does it, but iits more realistic than Ullmark and Grz for Hertl.

I’m curious if San Jose’s defensive options are so solid, why are all of them in the minus double digit plus minus players? Something is missing there. Is it just the goalie? I do believe that Grzelcyk is going to end up in San Jose eventually considering his relationship with Quinn (assuming Quinn stays), so this just hastens it a bit.

Forbort for Kynzhov is basically a salary swap of left defenseman because I assume that San Jose would not want to retain on Hertl for the balance of his contract.

Unfortunately, when I look at a way to manage the difference … I am struggling with other players to include. I’d rather it be a forward, but there isn’t one where you could recreate the ~$2m gap needed to prevent retention.

This would be quite a sad return for hertl

It’s not that what sharks have at good LD group right now or last year, But Knyzhov, Thrun, Okhotiyuk and Mukhamadulin (of those 4 only 14 games played last season) are all in line to fight for time in the next 2 years, add in Ferraro and it’s a good group but won’t be playing at a good level for a few more years, but blocking them would hurt their development.

And Grzelcyk may have a relationship with Quinn but does not fit the mold Grier is looking for. So I doubt he plays here unless it’s for league min.

Swayman would be huge for the sharks but Hertl is the heart and soul of this team and still can be part of their future as the grizzled vet leader till the end of his deal. His play style suggests he won’t age as poorly as some players so that’s the hope.

And yes last year the team had bad D group and horrible goaltending. With Karlsson gone the team will be more defensivly focused and hopefully Kahkonen and Blackwood can rebound after all both were very highly regarded not too long ago by scouts. But for now I don’t see a Hertl to Boston deal due to financial implications.

That’s a pretty light return for hertl. Goalies never have huge value and grzelyck is a cap dump. Probably gotta add a 1st and 2nd for SJ to pull the trigger.

I hate to say this, but most young defenseman prospects flame out into AHL caliber starters. When you hit, it’s wonderful, but it’s not all that common or teams would go from cellar dwellers to playoffs more frequently.

You fall for the prospects shine while losing the sense of what it takes to win. I’ve seen people overrate prospects who struggle to be competent at their junior and AHL levels in place of solid players like Grz and they pay for it by putting incompetent defenses out there.

When I look at San Jose, that’s been the case but I like Thrun as a bottom 6 guy and the kid you got from New Jersey is supposedly good, I look at Grier’s acquisitions and they have been mobile / puck movers as opposed to big lumbering defenseman. Either way, I believe your defensive struggles are tied to having too many players trying to find their way.

Most good veteran defenseman who don’t find a team will not go out of their way to sign with a struggling defensive team with bad goaltending. If you acquire a defenseman in free agency, you are paying a premium

Grzelcyk likely is your best left defenseman if acquired and Jeremy Swayman has all NHL ability. I think Hertl at this point is a good number 2 center being paid into his mid 30s (which is a risk)

I brought this AGM out there because someone suggest Ullmark and a pick for Hertl and I don’t see Ullmark not having San Jose on his NMC.

Either way, I’m completely OK keeping Swayman and seeing what options are out there next year with cap room.

I do find it ironic that teams without the defensive structure of Colorado and Las Vegas go cheap in goal with two outcomes continually happen. They overpay for mediocre or the cheap goalie predictably sucks. My belief is that SJ is positioning themselves for Celebrini.

That’s my hope, I want to be bad enough to get one of Levshunov, Eiserman or Celebrini, as the only way to make a legit contender long term is through drafting honestly.

And weather or not he’s the best D is pointless because any team with him as your Besty is not a very good defensive team sharks need to build from within a solid stable D core and it’s gonna take some time, trading for or signing 30 something short de is not the answer. Not gonna say he’s negative value not gonna say he’s not a decent good player just not the right fit for San Jose right now.

It’s also about being intelligent about how you develop them as well. Most all young teams struggle badly. You need some select vets to help.

I’m going to be intrigued to watch the hockey in the NE this year. Lots of good prospects

I don’t see any top-tier defenseman or goaltenders interested in the sharks this off-season or next off-season to be fair. Sharks have got to build a team worth coming to something with a lot of potential, but needing a couple extra pieces and they’re not there yet. I do feel the sharks have some decent pieces in the prospect for both on the defense and in the forward group, however I really do think they need a top-tier left D prospect and a top tier right D prospect to really fill out this group. and like you said we can’t bank on every one of our Legit prospects reaching their potential, I would assume less than 50% of the D and right around 50% of our forward prospects have a chance to reach their potential. That being said continuing to sign or trade for replacement level players to block them from moving up isn’t healthy.

100% and Grier has been smart pushing his “over ripen” ideology for the prospects, making them earn their chances and giving them more time than Wilson did. You can’t rush players or they can regress and destroy their careers and sharks have seen that sooooo much with defensive prospects in the past.

You can if you have the right supporting players around them, but too many teams don’t do that. I dont like the general concept of overripening all prospects, but it depends on their makeup

I also believe pairing a player you believe is going to be a star with a solid player opposite him is smart and prudent. It promotes growth and mentorship.

If you make the statement not to sign vets because of secondary prospect can develop … I believe that’s a mistake. It’s about putting the right players around the prospects you believe are likely to hit.

for that instance Thrun is being paired with Rutta a solid vet D and in training camp Vlasic has been paired with Mukhamadulin to mentor him.

Right now sharks have a stable mix of decent vets and are pairing them with the younger guys and that’s how it should be, no one in San Jose see’s this team as anything more than a rebuilding club but I feel they are doing it very smartly.
They’ve added a ton of coaches in former good/ great players and solid vets both in the AHL and NHL to work with their young players

I didn’t like the specific veterans they acquired in the Karlsson deal, but we’ll see how it plays out.

I agree that the hertl contract won’t look good in a few years, but in this moment he’s a valuable player and a valuable player boston could really use. As far as the trade, swayman has never been the guy for a full year so who knows if he could even handle it, all signs would point to yes but you never know. Add in the fact that like I said goalies traditionally never have that high of value and SJ won’t even be ready to be competitive until swayman is 30 so it just doesn’t make a lot of sense for them.

I agree that Swayman for Hertl makes sense for both teams. Boston needs a 1C and SJ needs a talented young starting goaltender. The Sharks have lots of depth at center but none in goal. I think Swayman will still be young enough when the Sharks are competitive again. Swayman is only 24 and Hertl is 29 so Swayman actually fits the Sharks rebuild timeline better than Hertl.

You had an earlier version of this trade that had Frederic, Merkulov, Grzelcyk, and Swayman for Hertl. I liked that one better.

The Sharks don't need another LD but they do need a puck moving defenseman and Grzelcyk fits that description better than anyone currently in SJ. Grzekcyk is needed in the deal to make capspace for Hertl. Debrusk is another option to create capspace. Debrusk doesn't fit the Sharks at this time but they could flip him. Doubt Boston would give him up, though.

The Sharks would probably prefer to keep Knyzhov. Or give Boston MacDonald instead.

I'll try another Hertl for Swayman trade on trademachine.

Something like Swayman and a second for Hertl. Add others from Boston to make cao space for Hertl. I consider Swayman to be equivalent to a 1st round pick.