Detroit doesn't need even more **** clogging Edvinsson's path to the NHL.

That’s extremely bad for St-Louis

They wouldn’t have any more D than they already do after this trade.

How? They tried to dump Krug 7 months ago for basically nothing. He’s a cap dump. It’s Buchnevich and a 2nd for Matheson and Berggren while also having the ability to dump Krug. Matheson is top 10 in league scoring by defenseman. It’s a top pairing defenseman for a 1st line winger. Berggren is likely worth about a 2nd.

They're not paying Krug or Chiarot ~$5M to sit in the press box.

They wouldn’t be paying them to sit in the press box. Both will play.

Buchnevich is not a simple first line winger. He is an elite first line winger. Matheson is worth less than him for sure. Krug cost around a second to dump

Buchnevich is not elite. That word has basically lost all of its meaning because of takes like this. Matheson is top 10 in league scoring by D. They’re both top line players, neither are elite. They’re similar value wise. If you want to give Buch the edge, Montreal is also sending out a 1st in this deal.

Buchnevich isn’t elite? I recommend you go check some of his stats. There is not a lot of 85 pts defensive forwards in the league…

Obviously I know his stats, I want Montreal to acquire him. He’s a stud, 70-80 point player. He’s not elite. If you call him elite you might as well call Matheson elite. He’s top 10 in league scoring by D, there are exactly only 10 of those in the league. There are a lot more guys who do what Buch does than 10 if that’s the criteria you’re using, but neither are elite, both are high end top liners.

But you’re right, I would say Buch is more valuable, but that’s why Montreal is also giving up a 1st on top of Matheson and St. Louis gets Berggren. It’s not Matheson for Buch straight up.

Plus there is a cost to moving Krug. I think St. Louis would like this deal personally. At the very least it isn’t horrible for St. Louis like you suggested earlier. It would at least make them think.

Matheson is also top 10 in the league in turnovers. He is awful defensively.

I don’t think there is more than 5 defensive ppg winger in the league

No doubt. Chiarot for Detroit. Krug for somebody other than Detroit.

There are 28 wingers in the league this year with a better ppg than Buch. He wouldn’t be top 50 among forwards in general. Matheson is top 10 among all D. All the other D play on better offensive teams than Montreal. He’s a stud, I’m not trying to downplay Buch let’s not downplay Matheson. He would be worth a ton of the trade market, but I agreed that Buch would be worth a little more.

I can only think of 1 defensive winger better than Buchnevich and it’s Marner while I can think of at least 10 D better offensively and 150 better defensively

Save yourself. Get out while you can!

There definitely aren’t 150 defenseman better than Matheson defensively, you couldn’t even make a 1 to 1 comparison because most don’t play the level of comp he does. He plays 26 minutes a game, he’s also not bad defensively, he’s around average and the analytics back that up. The giveaways are because he plays the most minutes in the league and is an incredibly high usage player. All the other D with as many or more turnovers are also great defenseman. Some are better than him. It’s just the nature of it.

You bring up Buch’s defending but it’s just not as valuable a trait as you’re making it out to be. He’s a winger, they’re not doing the work a centre is defensively 90% of the time. It’s easier to be great defensively for a winger than it is for a centre. It adds value, but not to the degree I think you’re suggesting.

He’s an awesome player, so is Matheson. Buch is more valuable, Montreal also gives up a 1st in the deal to help St. Louis shed Krug and they also get a very good prospect in Berggren who should probably be in a teams top 9 or top 6 right now.

Matheson isn’t good defensively. He is really bad
https://twitter.com/JFreshHockey/status/1746200282017517799

If it’s so easy to be good defensively as a winger, why aren’t there more good defensively winger?

Montreal is giving enough in the trade, but St-Louis isn’t receiving enough

I’ll start this by saying, even if you think he is bad defensively (the card you posted disproves that, 2 out of 3 seasons he was average defensively which is exactly what I said, making this year the outlier), but besides, when has that ever mattered? Offensive defenseman don’t have to be good defensively, Karlsson won two Norris trophies and got 10 mill lol. Just a terrible argument to begin with as it relates to his value. Hell guys who aren’t offensive defenseman and still aren’t very good defensively are even valuable.. Ristolainen was traded for a 14th overall pick and Seth Jones got paid 9 mill. Chiarot got paid 5 mill and Gudbranson got paid 4.5.. Do you actually believe GM give a **** about JFresh Cards? They don’t even know they exist lol.

But since you want to be a stat card pusher, I’m going to teach you something real quick, because you don’t understand context, and you don’t fully understand hockey, and I get it, there are a lot of you guys out there, so I don’t blame you, you’re young, you’ll learn. Matheson is an offensive defenseman, when you have an offensive defenseman on a bad team, that offensive defenseman is going to play a lot of minutes in his own zone. When said offensive defenseman is in his own zone you’re in a bad position. It would be the same for Hughes (and was) when he was on a bad team. Absolutely brutal defensive results, a liability. But now the team is good, when he’s on the ice, he’s in the offensive zone the majority of the time, so you don’t even have to think about his defensive game, because he’s almost never defending. That’s because he plays with great offensive players who control possession most of the time when they’re on the ice. Same for Karlsson, Fox, and so on.

When it comes to Matheson he is playing with 1 line that is young, decent, but not great offensively, and every other line is a black hole offensively and we are one of the lowest in the league in terms of possession, so he spends more time in the D zone than every offensive D on a good team. Now if you were to put Matheson on Tampa, or Colorado for example, his defensive results would be around average to good like there’s are. btw the fact that his offensive results are so great, on a terrible offensive team who doesn’t control possession at all, is even more incredible..

You also have to learn how to read the card before posting it. That’s a 3 year weighted average and he was average for two of them, which is exactly what I said.

As for defensive wingers, there are a ton. It’s called almost every bottom 6 forward in the league, they just don’t usually have the offense to go with it. It’s a great trait to have, it’s just not going to change his value as much as you believe.

RIP anybody who reads all that “knowledge”.