pass. No Skjei...no trade.

Also retaining salary adds to the Rangers, you dont get that for free

I think NYR is a good fit for Duchene but a young top 4 D has to be the centerpiece of a Duchene deal. Brady Skjei would be the logical starting point for Sakic.

the other side of the ledger has two players and a pick...where is the "free"?

The most you could hope for would be Deangelo instead of Graves. That would be yet another first rounder, a really steep price for a guy who finished with 41 pts and a -34 last year, but OK I can live with that.
But Skjei? When it's said and done Skjei ends up worth more than Duchene straight up, not gonna happen.

Thanks for the reply...

This is fair, and Graves projects as a top 4. Deangelo would also more than fit that asking price....that's without mentioning that the 2019 1st rounder could also fit the bill for a top 4 d man.

JT Miller, while not the equal of Duchene, is close. Asking for an additional player that can be argued to be more than equal to Duchene when all is said and done?....too much!

May end up...he could be average, could be great you dont know. People confuse potential as face value all the time. You know what Duchene has done and can do in this league, young players are a roll of the dice. He had a great season last year, but look at Olli matta, codi ceci, etc etc, this happens often that a Young Dman doesnt replicate their early success. (I think Skjei will be a good one personally) but there is still risk in there. Look at Carlo who was a stud for 40 games and then really struggled as the season went along. These guys are still trying to figure out the league.

Graves isnt anything special of a D prospect, not saying hes a bad one, just that Avs have D prospects like him already so you arent giving up anything that Avs dont already have. A Projected 2nd Pairing Dman a few years away (Meloche, Timmins, Bigras for the Avs)...that doesnt move the needle

And the free comment is that since the ask has always been 3 pieces, retaining on top of that and not adding anything to the trade would be "free". Trade duchene at 4.5m for 2 years would cost more to the trade to a team.

Just think of it this way, youa re asking a team to trade you a guy to be your 1C at retain salary and in return giving up a a Top 6 winger (who Ranger fans seem to want to trade away all the time), a middle of the road D prospect and a 1st rounder on a playoff team 2 years from now....where in that does scream perfect fit for the Avs

Yes, may end up better than Duchene....that isn't taking into account what he IS already. He isn't trying to figure it out, he already has, that's why your asking in the first place. We aren't talking about a 40 game sample size, he's already played a season and a half and has been stellar. Comparing him to Ceci is not even close, Ceci is steady and does log minutes....Skjei is superior in every measurable way. if Ottawa came knocking for Duchene with a package around Ceci, you wouldn't even listen. Sorry, not confused on his current face value vs his potential, comparing him to the guys you listed kinda indicates that you are honestly, but hey to each their own.

No, Graves isn't a top pair D man, definitely agree, but he is a 2nd pair guy. Saying he doesn't move the needle combined with the "free comment" is assuming the asking price is correct for Duchene...which everyone around the league has turned their nose up to...its the reason he still hasn't been moved. Either way if you are honest, looking at Colorado's roster he would start today! That's a bird in the hand, and if you had plenty of prospects who could start on D today, why shop for d men?

if you take out the natural urge to make a team overpay for your player...here is the middle of the road logic of the deal:

Miller nearly replaces Duchene...and 'may end up' better in the long run...but given he isn't now, he isn't enough (he does however meet one of the asking price pieces)

Graves gives you an instant upgrade and future 2nd pair guy...(not equal to the asking price based on the desire for a 1st pair guy, but a step down)

1st round pick...now is where you would use the phrase "roll of the dice" correctly...(meets the asking price)

The consensus asking price has been "previous 1st pick roster player, 1st pick prospect, and a future 1st pick". Negotiation means the price moves around...hence Graves instead of "1st pick prospect"....but for the sake of honoring the asking price, sub in Deangelo for Graves...done.

Asking for Skjei on top of the met asking price...is why Duchene hasn't moved.

I still dont think you are seeing my point.

Retained salary Duchene to be your 1C and the Rangers would be offering up pieces the Avs really dont need in a 1st, Miller, and Graves....not saying they dont have bale but its not what the Avs would have in mind to help fix their long term D issues. A what if in Graves (who doesnt project any better or quicker than current Avs D prospects) and a late 1st 2 seasons from now just to get a less versatile but equally offensive talent in Miller.

Graves just doesnt get the Job done as the only D piece involved when he wouldnt even be their Top rated D prospect , and the could draft a Dman in 2 years...again that doesnt help them either hoping they do and wait a total of 4-5 years for at hat dman to show up? If Avs wanted a full fugures package he would have been moved already, its less about futures and lots of picks and prospects and more to do with getting the right Dman under 25 that can be a part of their already young core moving fwd.

I get guys like Skjei is a big ask for a fan base but so is Duchene for the Avs. THey dont want to see one of the most lovable and talented players in Avs history be moved away for a collection of parts...they get enough trolling for moving ROR for a futures package. Why would they take a lesser package for ROR in a Duchene trade?

I definitely saw your point about Graves, which is certainly valid and worth discussing. Just didn't agree with the idea that Skjei is a 'maybe' player.

Also, your point about "free" didn't jive either. Retaining money so a trade fits into the cap is a common practice. If the offer was for players that Colorado was happy with, they wouldn't allow the Rangers not having the cap space to be what stops the trade. The idea that it means you have to now give up an even more valuable player, when does that ever happen?

You also didn't say anything previously about not being interested in JT Miller as the main piece of the deal. That point would have made a lot more sense.

Unfortunately, I really don't think the Rangers would give up Skjei for Duchene straight up, never mind in a package. To put it in different terms, I would say that Duchene is an absolute bonafide, great first line center, but would you call him elite? I wouldn't classify him that way. When you think of elite centers, can you put his name alongside them?

Skjei has already shown that he is a top pair d man, the only reason he doesn't play on the top pair is obviously Mcdonagh (they both play the left side). Now, would you call Skjei elite?....NOT YET...that's the caveat and that for me tells the story.

You look around the league and the price for elite d men (both in trade or contract) is insane. Believe me, I am not knocking Duchene, he'd be the best center the Rangers have had since God knows when (Messier?), we'd love to have him! I guess we are just going to have to wait and see how his eventual trade plays out.