No, we do not need to acquire a Marner's contract at the cost of downgrading our goaltending and defense. And I imagine Leafs fans want more.
Seeler just signed that contract, and it has an NTC. MAF also has a NMC and doesn't want to move his family.

Ned was playing about the same and better when it mattered at the end of the season so not a downgrade when hes made to be number one and Fleury is a future hall of famer who makes great key saves even if he's having a bad statistical game cause he's just a franchise superstar goalie like that.
NMC and NTC doesnt mean someone can't be traded just that they have to accept where they're going and it's not even public information as to who's on their listsbor who they'd verbally agree to go to. Fleury im sure would love to come back to Pittsburgh too. Personally i think the marner contract could be worth it and it could give us a bit of hope once our other future hall of famers retire in a few years from now

When your plan to go from playoff miss to contender is to trade for Marner and rely on 40 year old MAF lol.

Actually, Fleury is shown as the back up. Ned is shown to be relied upon and he carried the Penguins a bit at the end of the season.

Ok…

… You still think you’re contending with this?

Yea marner + bunting is an upgrade over guentzel, we needed a better 3rd line center. Our defense needed to be revamped once again especially the bottom pair. Goalies too cause 5 x 5 for jarry is too much in my opinion it could've gone to defense and a center which we needed more. We even have decent goalie prospects too.

Ned is a backup level goalie not a starter.
for years Pens fans watched MAF stare at the puck watching it go into the next and some how you think we want him back?

There is no way they are going to give that up for rental Marrner.
Just forget it.
He's not even worth his salary.
He's not a FP who got paid like one because the TOR fan base is dumb and the rookie GM got took to school.
I'm pretty sure he learned his lesson on that one.

Personally i never understood the Marner hate. I think this could be a solid playoff forward group by adding him and a much needed stephenson-esque center.

the hate is because he's not that good and gets paid like a franchise level player.
If he was a 7-8 mil forward no one would care. But he makes 11 and his next contract he's probably going to ask for more that he shouldn't get.

Flyers are trading one of the most important guys on their defense for an average at best center. Or trading with the Penguins at all.

I mean neither are super valuable players in terms of trade value but they're both valuable to a teams lower lines. They both bring grit and defense

There’s a difference tho. The Flyers don’t have a Seeler replacement. The Flyers have 7 players like Ellers lol

Ya dude. A guy notorious for disappearing in the playoffs is the missing link to take you from non-playoffs to Cup Contender lol.

We just resigned Seeler, why would we trade him?

Ned was great for the first half of that win streak, but I think he looked overworked by the end of it. A lot of those games were won because the Pens scored ~4.1 goals/game for the last 18 games, when their average for the entire season was 3.1 goals/game. But that's not the goalie downgrade I was talking about. Fleury had an .895 SV% and allowed 9.21 goals above expected, according to Evolving-Hockey. That is a couple steps down from both Nedeljkovic and Jarry: By EH's model, that was the 6th worst GSAx in the entire NHL.

And I bring up Seeler and Fleury's NTC and NMC with the context of just being given to them. Like you said, it means they need to allow the trade. I brought them up because I don't think either of them will waive either clause. Both just signed a new deal with their teams, and they're going to approve a trade before playing a single game of it? I doubt it.

On the Marner issue, I think a contract of that size would prevent us from making the best possible depth improvements, which has been the Pens' Achilles Heel since we won our cups. Sure, he's a superstar. But we don't need any more of those. The way our roster is currently constructed, that $11M is better spent on a pair of guys; Skjei and DeBrusk, Monahan and Tarasenko, something along those lines.

I definitely agree about the money needing to be spent on depth. The jarry and graves, contracts could've been spent more wisely last offseason and not that Eller or Acciari are overly expensive but 1 million less each makes a difference.

Lets be honest though - Ned did not carry the team. The reason the Pens went on a run is because they decided to score like 5 goals a game. Ned's numbers were subpar down the stretch. What he showed is he's a very good backup - but not starter material. If you want to say he's a better bang for the buck, you can make that argument - but the goaltending here is definitely a downgrade

I agree except i think he could be a 1b at least with what he's shown till right now. Definitely way better bang for the buck like desmith was, there was no reason to give jarry a pay raise like that when we needed to spend on depth even more.

Yeah I think Ned can be a 1B for sure - I think he had a solid season. I just think it's a huge gamble for him to be the pure starter. On paper it's definitely worse overall goaltending - but goaltending is weird and extremely hard to predict. With solid D play he could be perfectly fine as a starter. So I could be totally wrong haha.

I actually think Desmith was fine - pretty good backup. I'd have him and Ned on a similar level. Idk, Jarry was the best goalie available last offseason, which obviously helped his bargaining for a good deal. I don't think it's really a terrible deal, definitely not great, but probably fair. And I'm not sure who they could have signed last offseason that would be any better. If they don't sign Jarry and they get like two 1Bs thats still going to cost around 4mil right? So at best you have 3mil extra for depth signing? I don't think that would've changed the team's position that much. Just my thoughts

Well desmith and ned made around 1.5 each with us and desmith is making about 1.8 with the Canucks right now. So its about 3 million if they go for 2 cheap 1b options VS jarry at 5 million with a 1b back up. Essentially 6.5 VS 3. I dont know every little bit helps in my opinion. They overpaid a bit on graves by maybe 1 or 2, carter by maybe 2, eller by maybe 1, acciari by maybe 1. It all adds up. That's like at least 8 million that could've been spent elsewhere on just those contracts for us last year alone. Malkin could be making 4 or 5 at this point in his career as well but he needs better wingers too or just to be moved to Crosby's wing or wing in general.

we need centers for our second and third line that can play a good two way game and can win face offs like giroux, stamkos, stephenson, o'reilly, etc. we also need better d which could result in a 1b like desmith or ned looking even better because good d usually is supposed to translate to an easier life for the goalie, think vegas, winnipeg, canucks, carolina, boston, rangers, or Nashville.

I'm trying to imagine the city if the Pens went into last year with Ned/Desmith as their goaltending duo haha. Place would've burned down.

Sure, every bit helps I agree. I get what you're saying. And oh absolutely - if you look at the team as a whole there was definitely more money that you can add up - and it becomes a more significant of a number. I was just thinking about Jarry specifically. Personally I'm not sure if going cheap on goalies would have had them in any better of a spot this year. I do think Malkin's AAV is fair. By the end of his contract it might not be - but I think 6.1mil for him is fair.

I think Malkin fine as the 2C. He could be moved to wing, I can see that, but then you have to find a 2C. Maybe you can squeeze in Monahan or Stephenson, but that'll be tough money wise. Might just be easier to give Geno some winger help, as you touched on. Yeah but if you look at the teams you mentioned - 6 of the 7 teams have goalies on big contracts - they aren't running with cheap goalies. But yeah - I agree better team D is a necessity. I think that was a bigger issue this year than actual goalie play