Victor: Obviously Horton cannot be traded or sen cannot because his contract is uninsured, or buried. I never missed it,. I did regarding he possible rules of having the roster set before the season starts, and bonus carryover procedure. The rules regarding the cap hit and carryover over procedure, is somewhat convoluted. OK. so the Leafs will have a carryover of 4..580 next year. Bonuses minus cap space. The question is performance bonuses and I don't think this website illustrated the carryover process properly, OK, I could be wrong. But I'm saying there is a way to themselves or the Lupul and at least some of the performance bonus by trading Lupul if he's on LTIR (that's assuming I am correct about the performance bonus carryover)

Why is it that Columbus and the Isles surrended a first round each to Vegas to rid themselves of the LTIR contracts of Clarkson and Grabowski? Yes I know there were other pieces to the trade, but they knew the importance of ridding themselves of long term LTIR players. Just maybe, maybe, I am correct in there is some benefit for a team to rid themselves of teams of LTIR. Why did the Flyers and Panthers give sweeteners to Arizona to take long term LTIRs Pronger and Bolland. Yea there are cap benefits by ridding yourselves of LTIRs, otherwise these two teams wouldn't have given Arizona the sweeteners to take those players.

I don't am an obsession with trading away assets. Although I think some Leafs fans have this obsession with Leivo, who is starting his 5th pro season, who is isn't going to be difference maker with this Leaf team considering where he stands on the Leafs depth chart at wing. Same with Johnson.
The obsession of retaining Leivo by some Leaf fans is only matched by the obsession of acquiring a RHD at any cost, and trading Bozak, Komarov and JVR cause "you can't let them walk for nothing."

Remember in "Citizen Kane", Kane tried to train his lounge singer wife to become a opera singer? Despite all his wealth, training and her effort, she just wasn't good enough to be a opera star. Maybe some Leafs fans, should think Leivo in the same light. Despite drafting him, training him , developing him, he just may not be any sort of difference maker winger with the Leafs.

I don't care about Leivo, Johnsson you are selling short.

Regardless, my point was that you put Horton on LTIR on your roster. The minute he (or anybody) goes on LTIR (not IR) then all bonuses are carried over to the following year. By doing that you made it seem like we could benefit from trading Lupul more than we actually could. Lupul has only this year left, there is no long-term benefit we gain by trading him... at all. Because, unlike Clarkson (term left on contract) and Grabovsky (possible he could play and therefore not be eligible for LTIR), Lupul doesn't present any issues being on the books that wouldn't be there if he were off the books. The issue really is Horton PH, Lupul is irrelevant. As long as Horton is here, we have issues regarding bonuses and overages. And as you said, Horton can't be moved. To benefit by anything more than 1 million dollars, BOTH Lupul AND Horton would have to be traded this year and have very little come back. Thereby giving us the cap room to absorb 5.4 million in bonuses this season.

I hope this clears it up.

Maybe 1 million in overages is worth losing Leivo and Johnsson to you, but I would suggest you are in the VERY small minority.

Victor that's for replying. If you're correct about just saving 1m for Leivo and Johnson then I agree, I'd rather keep them. Wouldn't the Leafs (and all teams) be the then be better off just putting on never ending IR so they can use bonuses in the current season, instead of LTIR?
I thought someone as sophisticated as yourself, might like the Citizen Kane reference

We are in a unique situation in regards to bonuses PH, I don't think anybody has ever faced a 5.4 million bonus payout on rookies. We'll probably accrue around 4.5 this year (No Zaitsev bonuses) assuming MNM continue doing what they do and then Nylander's bonuses end after this season and we look at 3.6 in 2018-19.. It's important to point out that Rosen/Borgman/Aaltonen also have 850k bonuses but are unlikely to reach them.

My initial rosters on this were meant to subtly point out to those who post teams with Tavares etc. on them that they always seem to forget about bonus overages and LTIR. By my calculations we are fine keeping the big three and Gardiner long-term as well as most/all of our upcoming RFA'S. And could have some cap left for an FA, how much depends on what we do with Marleau and Martin going into their last season.

I got the reference to Citizen Kane, but I think Leivo's real issue on making this team is his inability to kill penalties. Because we've relied mainly on 4 wingers to pk (Komarov, Hyman, Brown and Soshnikov) he would never supplant one of them even if he was arguably better offensively than some of them. That puts him up against Martin, JVR, Nylander and Marner (and now Marleau). He doesn't beat any of those except Martin and we all know how Babcock feels about Martin. So he doesn't play unless an injury happens to one of those five.

I think he needs to move on, but not as a dump or a sweetener in a Lupul deal. Johnsson (and Grundstrom and Kapanen) is necessary starting next season when we probably need cheap wingers to replace JVR, Bozak, and Komarov moving forward. Those are our "known" future entities on the wing imo. Korshkov and Bracco are wild cards at this point and can't be counted on for anything. So I am reluctant to move any of them unless we are addressing a roster need (RD).