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BeterChiarelli

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Oct. 29, 2017
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Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 25 at 3:40 p.m.
Thread: Habs fantasy roster for the future
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>JeffGorton</b></div><div>I dont think they do. Clarke is more than NHL ready rn and they dont use him. They are currently ruining their best prospect. So instead they get a guy a tier below , but gain a top 25 pick, a top 9 winger prospect and some Dev time for their team.</div></div>

Clarke has accumulated four more regular season games in the AHL over the past two seasons than he played regular season games in the OHL last year. How you define that as ruining a prospect is beyond reason.

Edmonton likewise emphatically declines. Neither Monahan nor Kovacevic are addressing a need for the Oilers and they don't have the cap space to take on both players. Likewise I think Montreal is going to be hard-pressed to find a first rounder being returned for Monahan despite the optimism of Canadiens fans. Third line centers went for a second round pick at last year's deadline. If someone offers a second and a B-prospect, they'd be wise to take it.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 25 at 2:42 p.m.
Thread: Big swing Hart is probably gone
I have no horse in either the Flyers' or Panthers' camp but if you needed to pull a short-term netminder out of Florida, Bobrovsky at the draft or ahead of free agency would make the most sense from my very third-party view.

The Panthers have a salary cap problem going into July 1st 2024 despite the approximate $4M the cap is expected to rise and the name that's been brought up for ages is Bobrovsky. His M-NTC kicks in this upcoming summer and I think the odds are good that the Flyers aren't on his 16-team list. Should Fedotov and Mitchkov come over for next season, he'd be a fantastic ambassador for both young men to become acquainted with the league. He's proven and can take 50+% of the starts should Ersson show wobble to his game.

The kicker here is that Philly could shed some bad cap of their own - say the combination of Atkinson and Petersen - and theoretically not lose any assets in the process. Florida then has the option to buy out Cal at a $1M cap hit (assume they replace him with a $1M netminder to tandem/back-up Knight) and free up a net $3M in cap space, allowing them to keep both Forsling and Montour. The rising salary cap can manage the Tippett extension and leave room for a Walker replacement and Bobrovsky expires when Foerster, Konecny, and York are due their next contracts.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 25 at 2:22 p.m.
Thread: Handedness Doesnt Matter
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>AntiAnalytics</b></div><div>🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thanks for the laugh. That was a good one

Sorry “homer”
But he’s not getting a 1st- that’s HILARIOUS !
I can see why EDM wouldn’t wanna move him,
but NO ONE would pay that price</div></div>

The cost of a rental #3C at last year's deadline was in the neighbourhood of a second round pick: all of Domi, Eller, and Granlund fetched equivalent returns to that set price. McLeod has term, is younger, and expires with club control at the end of his current deal. Likewise, he's showing growing utility as a forechecking LW and has frequented Edmonton's second line this season.

Depending on the team in question, two second round picks may hold more intrinsic value than a late first round pick. It's absolutely not an unreasonable ask. Even if you think the idea of trading a first for McLeod is stupid, why should Edmonton take anything less than half of what Tanner Jeannot was sold to the Lightning for? The league has set precedence with these young cost-controlled RFA's.

Instead of being quick to label someone as a homer, maybe take a second to think about why they've presented an argument as they have.
Forum: NHLJan. 24 at 4:22 p.m.
Thread: Team Canada Scandal
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>yikes</b></div><div>I agree that we’re not here to pull out pitchforks and what not falsely - but also in the most respectful way possible, not talking about thing is part of the problem.

In my eyes right, and feel free to disagree, to not allow criticism is not helping change the environment. Again, respectfully - if you’re Formenton - London issues basically a demand saying they MUST come face charges without their names being publicly stated. And Formenton who well… yknow… all that’s transpired with him.. now he flies home to Canada the day of that demand from across the world..

I’m sorry but I ain’t giving that guy anymore shade from the spotlight until there’s EVIDENCE THAT PROVIDES doubt.

And all 4 of the NHL guys could be bystanders, but again.. by not sparking conversation is partly whats allowed this stain to be hidden for years and the guilty to roam innocently.

Even more so let’s just make up: Peter John made millions which will cover all the fees, problems, and bail OR WHATEVER, that will come as a result from this trial, while Jane Doe has just been tormented for years, and hockey Canada didn’t want anyone to speak about things.

So if Rick Westhead is going to spark conversation on what’s going on with these 5 players. I don’t see why sparking conversations here is wrong. I ain’t saying anyone’s name but the ONE guy who I don’t believe should have his name is hidden.

Not tryna say I’m right or you’re wrong. Just giving a different perspective.</div></div>

I think there's more value to keeping this discussion centralized and away from the other ongoing discussions: this piece deserves it's due, don't get me wrong.

There is value in being critical of the names involved, especially those who end up charged and those who looked to cover this incident (and those past) up instead of allowing justice to take its proper course. I take issue - and everyone should - with misguided outrage. It is very easy, and very tempting right now, to start to direct the anger, shame, and judgement these scandals have wrought at the five men who have taken absence from their clubs. There is a growing amount of reason to suggest these are the names we're looking for.

But we do not yet have absolute certainty. What if we're wrong and those five are not the names in question? It's a slim chance but it is still a nonzero chance. There is a reason why Rick Westhead specifically has not gone on to name the players themselves and it's that same lack of 100% certainty that he's currently abiding by that I would ask the community here to emulate.

Furthermore, once the names do get released, what purpose does vitriol aimed at those five serve? As I stated in the other thread, the most important discussion we can be having right now is "What can I/we do to affect change?". To me, that does more good for those affected by this scandal or others similar to it. How do we as a community ensure there isn't another Jane Doe or Kyle Beach? What is more important is their justice, their stories coming to light, and the hockey community as a whole doing something productive with that information instead of just getting angry at the individuals responsible.

I don't want to cover up this case or the others like it, but I've also never found myself in a situation where I've had to moderate something like this. I doubt the other moderators have either. Any decisions we've made to this point surrounding how this conversation should unfold on these forums has strictly been from a point of "what does the community the most good" without ignoring the seriousness of the topic at hand. Likewise, the userbase here is likely just as new to these conversations. Neither side is going to get this thing 100% right. You (as a collective) are probably going to disagree with how the moderators and I handle elements of this discussion. Likewise, we're going to disagree with how some of these conversations are approached by the masses. Keep working with us to have these conversations. The sport, forums, and community at large are better off for it!
Forum: NHLJan. 24 at 4:08 p.m.
Thread: 2023-2024 NHL Discussion Thread #3: After Further Review...
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Turbo</b></div><div>It's ultimately a luxury they feel they can afford to take. Chicago has the most valuable pool of upcoming picks right now and KD values establishing continuity and culture over mid round picks. Not to mention some of Bowman's leftovers have turned out better than expected (mainly Vlasic). They'll have multiple waves of prospects getting shots at the NHL level in the next ~2.5 seasons and they want them stepping into what they feel is the best situation while still rebuilding. Whether or not culture and a stable room outweighs mid round pics, only time will tell</div></div>

I think Sabres fans can attest to leaving at least SOME NHL talent on the roster, so I'll happily concede that there is value to be had in not completely gutting the roster. I still think Mrazek at a minimum was a poor extension even with that concession in mind: there are only 64 NHL jobs available for goaltenders, there was bound to be at least one - including Mrazek - that would have played in Chicago for a paycheque.

It's a risky luxury, as I don't think there's enough elite upcoming talent on the Hawks' roster to justify taking those kinds of liberties just yet. I like the cluster of Bedard, Korchinski, Moore, and Nazar. I hope Reichel keeps the wheels on his game to remain in conversation of that core. Adding Levshunov to the mix definitely helps. Maybe Hemming with the Lightning pick? Everything beyond the first round selections however is a crapshoot, which is why adding mid-to-late draft selections is still really important. I don't know if Chicago has enough of the pieces moving from the "maybe" to the "absolutely" column quick enough to signal the end of the rebuild.

Find a long-term goaltender sooner than later.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 24 at 3:51 p.m.
Thread: We can no longer avoid LTIR
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>GiggywithGibby</b></div><div>They've got loads of scoring forwards, they just aren't scoring, due to either a horrid case of the yips or being on IR.</div></div>

In the case I presented, Toffoli would likely be moved and a top-nine forward Curtis Lazar should not be. I don't see Nosek being that element either. McLeod is in limbo for the time being and should be disregarded until there's clarity regarding his absence.

Bratt, Haula, Hischer, Holtz, Hughes, Meier, Mercer, and Palat make up what should be a large majority of a very good top-nine unit. Replacing Toffoli with something equally as productive is where my focus went. Ideally a piece with term? Even more ideally something in the age range of their core in order to sustain the club once the wheels fall off of Palat.
Forum: NHLJan. 24 at 3:45 p.m.
Thread: 2023-2024 NHL Discussion Thread #3: After Further Review...
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Turbo</b></div><div>It's a fair point I guess but you're ignoring that KD has already made more 1st and 2nd round picks in 2 years than Chia had in his entire time as EDM's GM. And he already has enough 1sts and 2nds to double Chia's numbers in 2 more years</div></div>

I think the comparison is a poor one given that Chiarelli started with the selection of McDavid and the club was effectively thrust into "compete now" mode by their owner. Davidson had a draft leading up to Bedard and the Blackhawks were already comfortably nestled into mediocrity at that point and appear committed to the process for at least the remainder of this season.

Is Chicago starting their rebuild better than Edmonton did? Yes. Does this mean they should be forgiven for squandering two assets that could have been turned into (at minimum) a pair of top-100 selections in the upcoming draft? No.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 24 at 3:40 p.m.
Thread: Deadline Boyz
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Oilers_29</b></div><div>That’s an RD downgrade so easy no for the oilers and also oilers don’t need anymore Bottom 6 forwards we have enough already</div></div>

Carrier is almost a one-to-one comparable with Ceci but is a notably better puck-mover. This is a price I'd much rather pay for Carrier than the likely first-round ask from Nashville (on that note, I can't see Nashville taking this) but I do take issue with the gap in their TOI. Nashville might accept with the 2024 2nd in the mix instead of the 2025 3rd, but I'm not convinced.

Edmonton has bottom-six pieces in spades sure, but they don't have THAT piece in which Dowd would fill. Edmonton hasn't had a proper #4C since Letestu and I like DR10 as a winger more than I do as a pivot. The issue I take is the volume of assets going back for a #4C and a backup goaltender. Even if Edmonton dropped Savoie and by extension of the 2024 2nd going to Nashville as I suggested above, a first and a third feels heavy.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 24 at 3:35 p.m.
Thread: We can no longer avoid LTIR
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NHLfan10506</b></div><div>In an ideal world…we put Dougie on LTIR…accept the $2.25m carryover and try to earn in back by selling cap space this year….for space next year.

Team A dumps PLAYER 1 (overpaid pending UFA) on us and payment is PLAYER 2 (useful guy with two years remaining, retained by $2m or so).

That way we are cancelling out the overage (in a way).</div></div>

Would "punting" on this season - in essence selling on Miller and Toffoli as rentals - to acquire more assets be an option?

The two glaring weaknesses I figure the Devils want to address are going to be the goaltending and probably adding at least one more scoring forward. A first, a second, a pair of thirds, and Seamus Casey (maybe?) go a long way in getting one or two of those pressing issues solved and I can't see Nashville letting Saros go until the draft anyways.

This still requires limping by until the All Star break before committing to just being a wildcard team for the rest of the year.
Forum: NHLJan. 24 at 3:18 p.m.
Thread: 2023-2024 NHL Discussion Thread #3: After Further Review...
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>IconicHawk</b></div><div>No way they’d want to return after they were traded</div></div>

I can't see any other of the 31 NHL teams besides the half dozen that seem to be perpetually basement-bound of late to be remotely capable of offering either Dickenson or Mrazek half of what Chicago just signed them to. It's poor asset management regardless of what the justification is. Chicago, while already astronomically bad by professional sports standards, should have only one goal in mind: surround Bedard with the best talent they can acquire. Maybe the picks returned for Dickenson and Mrazek aren't the "best" players but they could have been moved to acquire such a player. The thought process in Chicago's management has been too linear.

To offer something more anecdotal, look at how much the Oilers suffered under Chiarelli by opting to not accumulate picks and prospects and instead leveraging those assets and their cash into plug-and-play players. Would the Edmonton Oilers have been better off having the likes of Chabot or Joel Eriksson-Ek in their lineup or Griffin Reinhart? What about doubling down on Mikko Koskinen? Milan Lucic? What happens when Bedard and Korchinski are making a combined $20M against the cap and there isn't a steady stream of quality ELC's coming down the pipeline to insulate the roster with cheap talent? The Edmonton Oilers - and even Toronto Maple Leafs - are almost a decade removed from drafting their generational talents and have not yet won Lord Stanley's prize for effectively these same reasons. Be warned.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 24 at 3:14 p.m.
Thread: We can no longer avoid LTIR
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>KINGS67</b></div><div>But how does that affect LTIR?

I get the ELC part.</div></div>

Bonuses are typically covered using the residual cap space from the preceding season, and I think it's based on accrued cap space (the same system that makes the cap hit of rentals almost nonexistent come the deadline). If New Jersey puts any of their players on LTIR while they're up against the cap, they lose accrued cap space. If they can weather the storm, the less they'll face in bonus overages come next season.

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NHLfan10506</b></div><div>We have a lot of bonuses from performing ELCs…probably $2.5-3m. We don’t want that to carryover to 2024-25.</div></div>

Even with the Devils freeing up $2.325M in cap space just from the Schneider and Kuokkanen buyouts expiring? And the anticipated $4.175M the salary cap is expected to go up by?
Forum: NHLJan. 24 at 3:08 p.m.
Thread: 2023-2024 NHL Discussion Thread #3: After Further Review...
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>yikes</b></div><div>but occams razor is only being favoured more and more here..</div></div>

Which is why we're trying to curtail any speculation - or conjecture if you want to be picky about your previous reply - until it's in official print.

Stating anything along the lines of "well it seems like this person, them, and that other fellow" doesn't add anything to the conversation about what needs to change in the culture right now. That's what's important for these boards right now. Fans will be quick to point out roster and cap implications but it's just noise. From the very onset the only important discussions we as fans should be having about this case or any other is how do we affect change in an environment that continuously allows things like this to happen?