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Forum:
Armchair-GM
Aug. 8, 2020 at 2:54 p.m.
Thread:
Take 1
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BurnEmUp</b></div><div>Here let me do it:
At the time of their trades:
ROR1 (23) - 0.21 gpg / 0.57 ppg - Highs of 28g / 64p
ROR2 (26) - 0.23 gpg / 0.64 ppg - Highs of 28g / 64p
Kadri (28) - 0.28 gpg / 0.63 ppr - Highs of 32g / 61p
Schenn (25) - 0.25 gpg / 0.57 ppg - Highs of 26g / 59p
Miller (25) - 0.21 gpg / 0.54 ppg - Highs of 23g / 58p
Duchene (27) - 0.30 gpg / 0.73 ppg - Highs of 30g / 70p
Monahan (25) - 0.35 gpg / 0.76 ppg - Highs of 34g / 82p
Monahan is so under rated around here, it's quite comical actually.
I say again, closest comparable is Duchene, and Monahan is younger, slightly more productive and also has 3 years term remaining. Not to mention the Flames won't be trading just for ****s and giggles either. He's our number 1 C and they don't have to trade him.</div></div>
And I’ll say it again, Duchene is hardly the only comparable for Monahan, and the Duchene trade hardly locks in the value of a Monahan return.
You’ve conveniently ignored Monahan’s current season your valuation, and the defensive acumen of guys like O’Reilly and Kadri.
Yes, he is the Flames number one centre and no they don’t have to trade him.
But if they decided they wanted to this off-season, a good NHL player, a prospect and a pick is a reasonable return.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Aug. 8, 2020 at 2:00 p.m.
Thread:
Take 1
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BurnEmUp</b></div><div>No, none of those players are as good of a comparable as Duchene. Duchenes production is the only one listed that comes close to Monahan and he still comes up a bit short in that department.</div></div>
J T Miller 27 goals 72 points (career highs)
Ryan OReilly 12 goals 61 points Career highs, 28, 77
Brayden Schenn 25 goals 58 points, Career highs 28, 70
Sean Monahan 22 goals 48 points, Career highs 34, 82
Matt Duchene 13 goals 42 points, Career highs 31, 70
Vincent Trochek 11 goals 38 points, Career highs 31, 75
Nazem Kadri 19 goals 36 points, Career highs 32, 61
Clearly there is some mystical plateau inhabited by only Duchene and Monahan.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Aug. 8, 2020 at 12:19 p.m.
Thread:
Take 1
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BurnEmUp</b></div><div>I didn't pick "best case" or "worst case" for either player.
I picked the closest comparable there was available and there really aren't any other ones that are even close....and even you scale back the Duchene return because of your hind sight view point, the return would still be miles better than the OPs, and then you take into account Monahan's better production, younger age and better term left on his contract. It is what it is.
Sean Monahan will cost a ton to acquire or teams can just F off because the Flames don't have to trade him....same as Duchene and the Avs., and there is certainly no way Treliving would trade him for the above weak proposal.</div></div>
You picked the best trade return you could find for a Monahan comparable and you said Mittlestadt is teetering on bust, when he’s 7th in games played and 9th in points in his draft class.
I don’t think history supports you. Top six players are traded for a player a pick and a prospect all the time. It’s kind of a well-known trope.
Montour is a good player, Buffalo’s 2nd is a pretty high pick, and CaseyMittelstadt is a 21-year-old 8th overall pick who has already scored 39 NHL points.
Ryan O’Reilly Is the first comparable that comes to my mind. He’s better than Monahan.
He was traded at age 24, along with a 3rd liner, for Zadorov a late first and two pretty good prospects
He was traded at age 27 for a 1st, a 2nd, a pretty good prospect and 2 cap dumps.
Brayden Schenn is a similar player.
He was traded for a late first and another lottery protected 1st.
J.T. Miller hadn’t proved it yet, but he’s as good as Monahan. He went for a mid 1st and a 3rd.
Vincent Trochek was at Monahan’s level. He fell off and went for just two 3rd liners and two unheralded prospects.
Nazem Kadri effectively went for Tyson Barrie
I think it’s the Duchene trade that was the outlier.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Aug. 7, 2020 at 1:55 p.m.
Thread:
Take 1
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BurnEmUp</b></div><div>I don't see why he wouldn't have that much value. He's younger than Duchene when Duchene was traded, he has better point production and goal production in his career than Duchene did at the time of the trade, and he's got 3 full seasons left on his contract where as Duchene had less than two seasons left on his. (Note: when it all shook out after Turris was flipped, the Duchene return was roughly equivalent to two 1st round pick, three 2nd round picks and a 3rd round pick)
And no, it can't be done without at least one of Cozens or the 8th overall coming back as PART of the return. If the Flames blow it up and trade their 25 year old #1C they will need something back that might replace him over the next few years. The best chance at that is those two assets, not Mittlestadt who is teetering on bust territory.</div></div>
Hmm..
Isn’t that Ottawa Duchene price considered one of the worst overpays of the past decade?
This is also the same Matt Duchene that was traded 15 months later for a pick in the 2nd half of the first round and two C-level prospects?
And the same Sean Monahan that put up 48 points and a -16 this year?
If you are going pick best case for Sean and worst for Casey, you’ve got to expect others to do the same for your guy.
Forum:
Trade Machine Proposals
Jul. 31, 2020 at 1:44 a.m.
Thread:
Expansion cousins help each other out
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>reelkena</b></div><div>We'd do Sutter instead but we just expect Sutter to veto Buffalo.
If we don't take Montour and we do move these contracts we get to keep Tanev. Tanev is better. Here's where our D is at.
Quinn - Tanev (if we can keep)
Edler - Myers (Myers has NMC so we're stuck)
Rathbone - Rafferty - Juolevi - Chatfield (any of them can make the team out of camp, they're all ready or close to ready)
Stetcher (RFA trying to move)
Benn (trying to move)
Fantenberg (UFA but he played well)
We're more full on D than you think.</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>reelkena</b></div><div>We'd do Sutter instead but we just expect Sutter to veto Buffalo.
If we don't take Montour and we do move these contracts we get to keep Tanev. Tanev is better. Here's where our D is at.
Quinn - Tanev (if we can keep)
Edler - Myers (Myers has NMC so we're stuck)
Rathbone - Rafferty - Juolevi - Chatfield (any of them can make the team out of camp, they're all ready or close to ready)
Stetcher (RFA trying to move)
Benn (trying to move)
Fantenberg (UFA but he played well)
We're more full on D than you think.</div></div>
I guess, but Edler is 34 and Tanev has a lot of miles.
If it was me, I’d rather have the 25-year-old who fits in better with my core age-wise.
But no worries, this works.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Tjm220</b></div><div>The trouble with Beagle is he’s a $3 million 4th liner and he can’t score any points. He kills penalties and wins face offs, but Girgensons and Larsson can too and cost less even put together. I don’t know if anyone’s going to take on the risk of that contract.</div></div>
From the Sabres perspective for next year, I expect Larsson to sign elsewhere. Beagle is his replacement and the extra salary is the price for Virtanen.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Jul. 30, 2020 at 11:25 p.m.
Thread:
Sabres make the playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Claesson4Norris</b></div><div>Montour isn't getting a 1st from Ottawa</div></div>
Agreed.
But he should get a 2nd a B prospect.
He’d instantly become your second best defenceman and he’s only 25.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Jul. 30, 2020 at 11:20 p.m.
Thread:
Sabres make the playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NickC1988</b></div><div>Hawks pass, top 9 F is basically full next season.</div></div>
Don’t the Hawks basically need to dump Maattaa to get under the cap? I realize Johansson makes as much, but given he’s a rental he’d be easier to move in a trade. I’d assume they’d just flip him for a pick.
Forum:
Trade Machine Proposals
Jul. 30, 2020 at 11:11 p.m.
Thread:
Expansion cousins help each other out
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>reelkena</b></div><div>It's funny because I berate people on here all the time. But they have to start with something stupid I don't just go looking for it.
Here's the thing, Montour is probably rights we would just flip. If he has value to you which it's fair that he does, then we have to find someone else to get because we care only... literally only, about moving contracts. Juolevi was being bounced around in ideas and then he just made the playoff team last night. And he should start vs Min on Sunday. The people we want to move goes like this right now.
Sutter (dump, has medium value)
Roussel (dump, has minimal value)
Baertchi (dump)
Beagle (dump, has minimal value)
Virtanen RFA rights (has reasonable value)
Stetcher RFA rights (has medium value)
Brisebois RFA rights (has minimal value)
We don't know which of out D prospects is gonna make the team next year so we're probably keeping all of those. Sautner is gone, Brisebois is gonna go.
Buf wants Virtanen, fine. We want these contracts gone. Sutter and Roussel might no trade Buf. (they have 15 team NTC's) Beagle has a 5 team NTC and Sven is open.
Lets say full thought, both 15 team players block Buf trades. which is expected.
Can we get Jake, Beagle and Sven to Buf for like a 7th? You need to resign Olofsson now and Rasmus next year so probably not. Beagle is a cheaper Sutter but kills penalties. We wouldn't pay Jake to save just the 2.2 from Sven anyway but 3 is more reasonable.
To Buf
Jake Virtanen (RFA rights)
Jay Beagle 2x 3 mil
To Van
Jean-Sebastian Dea (1x 700k)
2020 5th round pick</div></div>
So basically jake for picking up Beagle’s contract?
I’d do it. Do it for Sutter’s or Baerschi’s instead, as well if you’d rather. Krueger might be able to pull something out of Sven, and we need a defensive specialist if we don’t re-sign Larsson.
Surprised you have no interest in Montour, looking at your D corps.
Forum:
Trade Machine Proposals
Jul. 30, 2020 at 11:10 p.m.
Thread:
Expansion cousins help each other out
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>reelkena</b></div><div>It's funny because I berate people on here all the time. But they have to start with something stupid I don't just go looking for it.
Here's the thing, Montour is probably rights we would just flip. If he has value to you which it's fair that he does, then we have to find someone else to get because we care only... literally only, about moving contracts. Juolevi was being bounced around in ideas and then he just made the playoff team last night. And he should start vs Min on Sunday. The people we want to move goes like this right now.
Sutter (dump, has medium value)
Roussel (dump, has minimal value)
Baertchi (dump)
Beagle (dump, has minimal value)
Virtanen RFA rights (has reasonable value)
Stetcher RFA rights (has medium value)
Brisebois RFA rights (has minimal value)
We don't know which of out D prospects is gonna make the team next year so we're probably keeping all of those. Sautner is gone, Brisebois is gonna go.
Buf wants Virtanen, fine. We want these contracts gone. Sutter and Roussel might no trade Buf. (they have 15 team NTC's) Beagle has a 5 team NTC and Sven is open.
Lets say full thought, both 15 team players block Buf trades. which is expected.
Can we get Jake, Beagle and Sven to Buf for like a 7th? You need to resign Olofsson now and Rasmus next year so probably not. Beagle is a cheaper Sutter but kills penalties. We wouldn't pay Jake to save just the 2.2 from Sven anyway but 3 is more reasonable.
To Buf
Jake Virtanen (RFA rights)
Jay Beagle 2x 3 mil
To Van
Jean-Sebastian Dea (1x 700k)
2020 5th round pick</div></div>
So basically jake for picking up Beagle’s contract?
I’d do it. Do it for Sutter’s I stead, as well if you’d rather.
Surprised you have no interest in Montour, looking at your D corps.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Jul. 30, 2020 at 10:08 p.m.
Thread:
no fun this off season waiting until after Kraken draft to bolster team
The overall team looks better thanks to the offer sheet, but my god do I hate the Winnipeg deal from Buffalo’s perspective.
I wouldn’t trade Casey or Montour on their own for a 2nd, let alone both of them. And Appleton isn’t even in your starting lineup.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Jul. 30, 2020 at 10:04 p.m.
Thread:
deal or no deal
if I’m Buffalo, I’d much rather keep Risto and do the Bjugstad deal myself.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Jul. 30, 2020 at 9:47 p.m.
Thread:
TBL v5 trading Cirelli
At any given point in time, every team’s fanbase has a good young player who they rate far higher than they should. (They usually turn on him two years later, he gets traded, on goes on to have a respectable career).
Jokiharju is that guy right now for Buffalo. Of course he is available if Cirelli is the return.
I think the Sabres would want a piece like a Joseph coming back, or a lesser futures piece substituted for Casey. And/or they would be willing to take on a cap dump in order to reduce what they give up.
But the offer for Cirelli is certainly in the ballpark.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Jul. 30, 2020 at 9:35 p.m.
Thread:
Trade Boqvist
Heiskanen is not getting traded. He’s the Stars most valuable asset.
Forum:
Trade Machine Proposals
Jul. 30, 2020 at 9:21 p.m.
Thread:
Expansion cousins help each other out
How about Sutter Virtanen Juolevi for Montour and Pilut?
Or do you still think Juolevi has a ton of value?
Forum:
Trade Machine Proposals
Jul. 30, 2020 at 9:09 p.m.
Thread:
Expansion cousins help each other out
PS It’s nice to talk trade with someone who wants to make a deal, instead of berating you on your player judgement.
Forum:
Trade Machine Proposals
Jul. 30, 2020 at 9:07 p.m.
Thread:
Expansion cousins help each other out
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>reelkena</b></div><div>Sutter is still a priority to go before Roussel, I just wanted both gone.
Jake and Sutter for Montour's rights?</div></div>
I think Montour for Jake straight across is pretty close in value, if you want to talk hockey trades.
If you want to clear cap we’d need a real sweetener.
Which is why I brought Benn and Demko into the original proposal.
Forum:
Trade Machine Proposals
Jul. 30, 2020 at 8:21 p.m.
Thread:
Expansion cousins help each other out
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>reelkena</b></div><div>I think we pass then. Demko and Jake are two players we need to use to move out two problem contracts separately (if we even move Demko). Benn isn't really a problem contract. I would rather not get Montour and do something smaller.
Demko and Sutter for Hutton?
Then we can move Jake and Roussel for something somewhere else.</div></div>
Jake is the main reason for the Sabres to make the deal. Demko is more dice roll seal the deal than a need.
What’s the ask for Jake and Roussel?
Forum:
Trade Machine Proposals
Jul. 30, 2020 at 8:00 p.m.
Thread:
Expansion cousins help each other out
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>reelkena</b></div><div>Jim Benning here. Can we swap out Benn for Roussel? The extra year is the year we need more cap relief because we have Petey and Quinn coming up. (assuming we can get MNTC's to work)</div></div>
Not that smoothly. Benn is a better roster fit in Buffalo and the shorter term is good for the Sabres as well.
Proposal would have to be tweaked more or the Canucks would have to add.
Forum:
Trade Machine Proposals
Jul. 30, 2020 at 7:41 p.m.
Thread:
Expansion cousins help each other out
Canucks get a top four puck-moving RD entering his prime, and some cap issues cleaned up.
Sabres get an emerging middle six RW, and a goalie to compete with Ullmark for the right to be protected in the expansion draft.
Forum:
Trade Machine Proposals
Jul. 28, 2020 at 8:31 p.m.
Thread:
This sign Hall or Pietrangelo in FA and BUF could be contenders
Would the Sabres have any hope of signing Johnny?
Because the only reason Calgary trades him is if they can’t.
Reinhart is nowhere near a Gaudreau signed to term, but he is a heckuva get for a rental Gaudreau. Can’t see the Flames reeling in a better asset in that scenario.
Dumping Okposo is not as important to the Sabres as some seem to think. Buffalo has cap space, and he is still a useful player, just not worth his contract.
Forum:
Trade Machine Proposals
Jul. 28, 2020 at 8:23 p.m.
Thread:
If Calgary presses the reset
Sabres fix their top six scoring issues with a prime 2C and add some needed grit to the 3rd line, while crossing their fingers Bennett can show some more in a new situation.
Calgary addresses a big need on RD while adding two prime futures chips as they reset with pick 8 and one of the league’s better goalie prospects, clearing cap for a free agent signing or another big trade.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Jul. 28, 2020 at 12:05 a.m.
Thread:
I lied - 1 more try
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RoyalBlueSabres</b></div><div>Why. Cause Cirelli is a shiny new toy.
practice what you preach brother</div></div>
Because Cirelli was used as a 2C on perhaps the league’s best team. Cirelli is the 44th highest scoring centre in the league and getting talked up for the Selke.
Jokiharju was used as 4/5 D on a team that didn’t make the playoffs.
Jokiharju should be good and could be really good.Cirelli is really good.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Jul. 27, 2020 at 11:57 p.m.
Thread:
hhhh year 2 lol
Compher is someone the Sabres would be interested in but the price is a tad steep.
Not sure I’d do pick 38 straight across, but that’s a better value.
If you want Pilut we need something better coming back.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Jul. 27, 2020 at 11:47 p.m.
Thread:
Winnipeg Loses Play In
This Sabres fan wouldn’t do the Montour trade. Copp fits our needs better the Roslovic.
Copp and a 2nd would get you Montour.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
Jul. 27, 2020 at 11:42 p.m.
Thread:
I lied - 1 more try
Any Sabres fan not willing to give up Jokiharju for Cirelli is delusional.
Shiny new toy syndrome. He’s good and he should be an excellent top four.
I am a hardcore Sabres fan. The above proposal is heavily slanted to the Sabres.
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