Karlsson will get more than that if it's a long term deal. Playing a primer position and putting up the numbers he did....for a long term deal it starts at $7 million a year if I'm his agent.

This type of cap circumvention is forbidden. I can pull out the CBA rule if you really want, but it prohibits a team reacquiring a player with a RS cap hit.

The reason the Penguins were able to acquire Brassard on a RS contract is because Vegas acted as a third party between Ottawa and Pitt. The Caps cannot trade and then reacquire Orpik with a decreased cap hit.

Creative, but not allowed.

Also, the hypothetical return for Vegas here is staggering compared to what they got for taking on a greater financial commitment in 1.5 years of Brassard's deal. I am probably mistaken, but I think they obtained a 2018 4th as well as Reaves. Compare that to Barber, Connolly, 2020 3rd, and an upgrade from 4th to 3rd in 2019. That is way too much given what Vegas already set the market at.

If you really think it blocks this, I'd be curious. But not if it takes you more than two minutes.

My understanding was that the prohibition would be on team Z reacquiring player X after team Z has retained salary on player X. Since the Caps don't retain on Orpik in the first trade, this might be a petty and ridiculous circumvention of the spirit of the salary cap, but given that the Brassard Loophole was initially upheld by the Brassholes in the league brass, well... now it's all downhill from here.



Thanks. If that's what bothered you about this team, I'm happy.

I haven't read the actual CBA, but here's the explanation I think I'm going off of: www.colliganhockey.com/nhl-cba-retained-salary-trades/

"If a team trades away a player and retains salary in the transaction, that team cannot reacquire the player for one calendar year after the date of the transaction. One exception to this would be if the player’s contract expires or is otherwise terminated prior to the one calendar year date. In this case, the original team would be free to reacquire the player as the retained salary element no longer exists."

So Vegas would be prevented from trading for Orpik during the 18-19 season. I think they'd get by.

Took me more than two minutes but the actual rule in the CBA is 50.5.e.iii.C.4: Under no circumstances may a Club: Reacquire as part of a Retained Salary Transaction the SPC of a Player who was on that Club's Reserve List within the past calendar year.

Here, Reserve List can be expanded to include Active Roster as well.

Not sure why you didn't understand my initial explanation. The reason the Brassard transaction was allowed is because, in your example, Vegas is the previously unmentioned team Y who does the retaining. They cannot reacquire a player they have already retained salary on, NOR can the team that initially traded him for up to 1 year. If the Caps had done this in July 2017, Orpik could theoretically have spent this year in Vegas only to be traded back to DC in July 2018. However, this scenario is ridiculous.

No, Vegas would only be prevented from trading Orpik back to DC. Which renders this entire experiment useless as it's the final year of his deal.

Hey flyers fan here. As a Vegas fan I'm curious what you would expect in a trade for the rights to sign Karlsson. Would a top flyers D prospect (Sanheim, Morin or Haag) plus a first rounder be enough? I think if you guys need help anywhere its D. Hit me with a counter offer if you want.

My comparable, which reflects my Caps fan upbringing, was TJ Oshie, who broke out for 33 goals after several seasons over 20 (which was Karlsson's previous career total) and signed for 8 years at slightly less, in a move publicly described as giving a lot of term to reduce short term cap hit. I think the idea was that, if he was getting almost $50M, no one was going to sweat the small stuff.

Do you think Karlsson would take close to that cap hit on a shorter term deal, or have I blown Vegas' chances to overpay for Thomas Vanek?

Not sure whom you're addressing.... I respect and admire Vegas, but I'm from DC, like it says under my name, here, to the left.

Off the top of my head, my guess is that Karlsson, having been the leading goal scorer for every single year in VGK franchise history, is a human NTC.

The whole idea of retained salary is ridiculous. The Brassard trade highlighted the need for a rule on how long a team must have a player on payroll before trading them and retaining salary. Otherwise teams with cap space just end up selling it off for draft picks and.... healthy scratch enforcers? Not McPhee's best deadline, but not his worst, and definitely entertaining.

Thanks so much for finding the rule! That's comforting, that there is some limit to how much damage retention does to the idea of a salary cap as a means toward competitive parity between teams.

Problem is Oshie is a winger and Karlsson is a center. Oshie was also 30yrs old while Karlsson is only 25yrs old. If you're Karlsson, your eligible to be a UFA in 2 years and just had a breakout season. If you were WK, would you sign for 8 years at $6 million? The contract puts you locked in until your 33yr old (past the prime) and if you're play continues you'd be paid well below market value.

Wait a darn minute Eli, you were swearing by Orpik not too long ago to the point of Ad nauseam and now your trading him with picks and prospects to alleviate half his cap hit only?

Let me get this straight:

50% of Orpik cap hit
for
2nd 2019 (Connolly)
3rd 2019
3rd 2020
Riley Barber



Please trade with the Habs! I think that would be a very smart trade. We could use the free picks.

One 3rd to dump Orpik's cap hit at nearly 6M. Connolly and a 3rd for Orpik at 2.5M. Oggsford says the Caps are ineligible for the 2nd deal, though. I'd trade Connoly+3 for Alzner at half, though.

Barber, Walker, and Travis Boyd are all NHL ready without roster space. Trading them or someone ahead of them for good salary cap values beats losing them on waivers. Chiasson walks. This trade clears the other two spots so Walker and Boyd are still around. If it sounds like a good deal for the other team, too, that's because it is.

Take away the salary cap, and Orpik would be a Ranger.

Okay, but if I were William Karlsson and I had less than a million in the bank and someone offered me a 50M contract, and I had some understanding of opportunity cost and marginal value, and I understood that hockey is dangerous and uncertain, and that I might play two more games and get a concussion and be done? Yeah. I'd sign that. I would definitely take the guaranteed fifty million dollars, ask that it be slightly front-loaded, and find a good financial advisor to divide each check between ten mutual funds.

The difference between earning 50 million dollars over a hockey career and potentially earning a hundred million dollars over a slightly longer hockey career? I can't think one. You still drive the same $40k jet ski past the same $2M beach house all year round, and pay the same $100/mo cable bill to watch the same $2k tv. The difference between earning $50M and earning $10M over two high flying years in Vegas, and being left with just one or two million in the bank, and living in a reasonable house in the suburbs, going back to college in a wheelchair, and looking for a real job? That's a significant difference. Yeah. If I were William Karlsson, I'd take the guaranteed $50M. That's the better deal. Even if at the end of it he's 34 and can only earn like $10M more if he's been an all star every year.... by that point, who cares?

More than that, I'd take the long term deal to stay in Vegas with an NMC because as the Knights' all time goal scoring leader, he'll be a local superstar. Anywhere else he'd just be one more hockey player in a city that's had hundreds of hockey players. Absolutely 6x8 is fine. Or maybe 7? Don't know. Don't see any meaningful difference between the two.

The bigger reason Karlsson is "only" worth 50M is that he's only broken 20 goals a year on a top line with Marchessault, who scored 30 the year before, and opened up a fair bit of ice for him this year. If the Knights sign Tavares, and Karlsson loses out on having his choice of linemates, he might just be an above average second line hockey player for the next couple years, and never again get the chance to sign that big contract. So, if I was unclear before, he should definitely take that now if it's offered.

The problem is you're looking at this through the eyes of an everyday Joe and not a pro trying to earn as much as he can because he'll be retired in his mid-30's.

No. The problem is I read an economics textbook and I learned the concept of "marginal utility," so I know that economists, rather than advocating for more dollars for each person, look at money like any other commodity, as something worth working for as long as having more of it will give you some benefit. It's a shame Jeff Bezos never had the opportunity to read such an intro textbook.

Look at the end of the day, the agent, the player and everyone who gets a piece of that player is pushing for more money. Whether you like it or not, agree with it or not, that's just how it goes.

You think his agent, working at ten percent and in no control of what happens on the ice, doesn't want a guaranteed $5M over 1M and a chance at 7M or 8M in two years? How many beach houses can one agent live in? You're so close to getting why this gets done.

LOL time will tell. I don't see it happening, but to each their own.

I'm looking at this as a Caps fan who listened to George McPhee's explanations of the Ovechkin contract that followed similar principles, but after Ovechkin had led the league in goals and points a few times, at a much younger age, indicating a higher ceiling. McPhee explained all his pre-expansion draft trades in terms of "opportunity cost," another central concept of economics. I'm using actual interviews given by the person on one side of this negotiation to help you predict how it's going to shape up. I'm looking at how McPhee shrugged off trading for an injured long term contract to get picks and prospects. He believes in having a long term plan.

You're stereotyping William Karlsson to be a money-obsessed typical athlete, focused on being the biggest star, with the Napoleon complex of the running back in Jerry McGuire. The kid is from Sweden, where pretty much the whole ethics system is about fitting in and being a part of a community. I just think you're making things up for the sake of having an argument, and I'm happy to keep explaining the obvious as long as it remains civil.