While not being big on advanced stats, I agree with a lot of what you say about Nylander, but come on man. You went straight into crazy with this comment. Nothing he does is better than Matthews OR Tavares. In terms of scoring, he has the edge on marner but to say you would want him with the puck instead of those 3, i just can't comprehend. All 3 of their play this year is proving it to.

I stand by my statement. Last year Matthews often gave the puck to Nylander to bring up ice and would get in position to give him an option. Tavares does the same with Marner often. Use the faster guys to back up the defence and the centre can find the open seems to get open and score. Nylander is probably the 3rd fastest guy on the team behind Kapanen and Dermott and he can handle the puck at high speed really well as well. He's not a huge drop off from Marner like people are saying.

If you were only comparing to Marner, then fine, last year it could be debated easily. But Nylander isn't even on the same planet as Matthews, there's no debate and the entire hockey world knows it.

As for having the puck at the end of the game, Marner has shown that he is the guy for that. And so far this season, has been one of the best in the league if not the best play maker. I have no doubt Nylander can get the puck to someone in a scoring position and is likely one of the better players at it, but no chance I'd want him over Marner distributing the puck.

I don't ultimately think the debate is over if Willy is good enough to earn 7+. On some teams he would. Just not a contending team. Its the reality of a cap world. If he wants to win, he will make himself fit. If he wants the dollars, well he can be a super star on a losing team then. What i see is the most unfortunate part about all this is, the longer he waits, the more of a T.O. whipping boy he'll become.(I guess thats good for Gards,lol) Not sure Willy can handle that.

I think you miss understand me, Matthews is the best player on the Leafs and its not close. I would also put Tavares ahead of Nylander. Where I take issue is when people treat him like he's just a 60 point winger. A good but not great player. Nylander will be a guy who scores 80-90 points on a regular basis, he's shown more than enough potential to assume he is going to be that kind of player with TO.

I hope you're right, I don't agree though. But I definitely wouldn't mind being wrong.

He's 22 years old and players don't peak until they generally hit about 24, (look up a variety of players and you'll see that higher end players almost always have a big year around the age of 24) so Nylander's best hockey is still a head of him. All this garbage about players being in their prime in their late 20's to mid 30's is 100% false, for ever player that does better as he ages there are several who show signs of decline in their 30's. Its a young mans game and TO has some of the best young offensive talent in the game. Nylander is one of those.

I know you are a huge stats guy and we've had this debate before. There is more to hockey than stats. When the entire hockey community believe peak is in the 26-29 range then there is validity to it. its not just numbers either. Players play both ends of the ice as they get older. Ovi is the perfect example of this. 100+ points 4 out of 5 of his first seasons, then a drop to 80-90. Thats cause he started crossing his blueline and is WAY better for it. This is what i have found when quickly looking at some superstars stats.

And to your point, if Willy's gonna peak at 24, why would the leafs give him 7+ long term when during most of that contract he's going to be declining. Willy's better off signing a 2-3 bridge if he wants 7+ eventually. He's a really good damn player, but right now, no where near as good as he thinks he is going to be and won't be paid it.

Players evolve and that can't be denied but the reality is, physically they peak at about 24. Then they spend the next 6 years hovering close to the same and then start declining in their 30s. This is a trend that is very easy to follow. So how does it make sense to bridge a guy for 2-3 years (ages 22-25) and then give him a massive 8 year deal that is paying for the best 3 years of his career only to lose value as the player is in his early 30's? Why not lock them up for their best years at a fair price and then give yourself negotiating power on contract 3 since the player will be 30. At that age, he can't command a massive term and cap hit since there is a mountain of evidence showing this player's best hockey is in the rear view mirror.

I agree with you, just not with what the fair price/value is.

Its best for Nylander to bridge then clean up(with someone else) on a contract in 2-3 years. Its best for the leafs to sign longer term so his contract is "cheap" in the final years. If news reports are true, willy's asking for more than the leafs can pay him( because 10 out of 10 times they are going to choose to pay marner first). His value is definitely debatable when you consider his place in the league, but not when you only consider his place on the leafs. He's their 4th best forward and will be considered 6th when it comes to long term planning(Reilly and Anderson before him). This is not only my opinion and not only based on stats. Even if he is only slightly behind Marner, the leafs still can't pay him. Thats why he has such a concern about being traded.

Honestly, even if Marner and Nylander were of equal value. The only difference being where they grew up. Who you gonna choose? This contract is not about his league wide value, its about his value to the leafs.

I just heard, Dubas is on his way to Switzerland to meet with Willy, lets see what comes of it.

I just don't at all understand why people are like "give Willy 6 mill tops, he's only a 60 point winger" and then immediately say "Give Marner 9, he's amazing." They have essentially had the same stats so far in their career.

I think if the leafs had plenty of space for Willy to paid then you wouldn't be hearing that. I personally see a large difference in play between the 2 (regardless of what the stats say). Marner is just so dynamic. I wish I had Willies play to compare it to this year. And in respect to likability, Marner is the cities sweetheart and is probably only behind matthews when it comes to that.

Willy was right there with them until his contract came up and now nothing but disrespect. I wouldn't at all be surprised if he gets driven out of town by the media and the fan base. He's an elite level talent and gets treated like he's a solid but not spectacular player.

Yup. I agree. I had said before, if he holds out, he'll be Toronto's new whipping boy until hes traded. Its because everyone wants him and we are upset he isn't signing for what the team needs him to sign at. I'm pissed about it too, but only for selfish reasons. Unfortunately for the kid, he's going to lose this round. I just hope management has been treating him with respect, just to show the others guys that they are safe in T.o. and its worth giving a bit back just for the chance to play here.

"That's why the Oilers and many other teams, including all the preferred comparables" Pastrnak signed in training camp, Elhers the summer before training camp. Also the Oilers signed Draisaitl in August after his ELC had ended. So what where you trying to get at here? Something about how dumb Dubas is for waiting? Some more comparables, what about Larkin? When did he sign? Oh yeah it was after his ELC had ended as well. You really put zero effort into even making sure you are saying anything real.

a year ago dubas was not the gm

Arguing with Tatatavares is about as fruitless an endeavor one can undertake. He knows everything and will throw all that information at you in poorly written sentences that make Donald Trump sound like he knows what he's talking about.