The only issue I have is as great as Marner is, this still leaves them no potential future 1C and they may be able to find that in the 1st round (especially if they find a way to move up).

Not enough for Marner.

I agree, but I'm not sure a legit #1 center prospect will be available at #12...but, like you said, IF they could move up...I would probably not make this deal...but if I couldn't, and I wasn't crazy about any of the prospects available at 12, I would do this.

Maybe not, but it's got to be pretty damm close.

Starts with Dumba, not Spurgeon.

Not really, guys like marner aren't packaged with a cap dump like zaitsev. You dont decrease a players value like that.
So basically your trading marner for a very good top 4 dman, yet he will be a ufa and might not resign, a 3rd line young player, and a mid first in a weak draft.
That's not a great package imo
The real package (without zaitsev) would start with Dumba and add from there

Maybe throw in a milkshake. That should do it.

That probably would be the sticking point with this deal... Answer this for me: How much of Marner's production is aided/dependent on the Leafs other very talented forwards? I'm sincerely curious about everyone's opinion on this. Dumba is a monster producer on an otherwise mediocre team...with a great contract and just entering his prime...and a right-shot #1 d-man to boot. It can't be too far off to consider a Dumba for Marner trade straight up... What says you?

I said it starts with Dumba, Minnesota adds more. Marner is the guy who carries the puck and creates plays. He was the QB on the Leafs 1st PP unit all season. Yes stats are aided by teammates, everyone's are because if they other player doesn't put the puck in the next then there is no point. That's a BS thing for people to say. The way Marner creates the open ice and draws multiple opponents to look at him then finds the open man for a scoring chance doesn't matter who he's playing with, it's just his skill. Starts with Dumba, then either Greenway or Kunin. And picks and lower end prospects. Toronto adds to, but Minnesota is the one paying the price

I get the UFA concern for Spurgeon...but, for the sake of this conversation, assume he will resign with the Leafs. Also, you need to understand that Spurgeon is a bonafide top-pairing RHD...not just a top 4. He was BY FAR the Wild's best player this season and would give the Leafs an absolute dynamic top pairing with Reilly. Dumba is good too...very, very good, but Spurgeon is the better player right now for sure.

Something I've proposed before that got a lot of good feedback was this:


Matt Dumba
Jordan Greenway or Luke Kunin
2020 Minnesota 1st round pick (top 5 protected)
Conor Dewar
Minnesota 2020 5th round pick


Mitch Marner
C+ / B- defence prospect
2020 Toronto 3rd round pick

Greenway or Kunin is dependant on what prospect goes with Marner in the deal

An offer sheet for marner would be over 11 mill per year meaning the compensation to the Leafs would be 4 first round picks in consecutive years. So no this is not enough for marner. Add in another 1st and even then there are 20 guys on the leafs roster they will move before they trade Marner.

But if spurgeon signs, it’s for big money....which is the on;y reason they would deal Marner in the first place

The Leafs would have a full year to figure out how to manipulate their roster to accommodate Spurgeon...and he is, without doubt, a player worthy of this attention.

I really like spurgeon, but I feel like Toronto would want someone who fits in the age group of their team.

Maybe so...but, the Leafs needs filled by this trade have a ton of value too. A bonafide #1 RHD, a big, gritty, and skilled left-shot forward, and a young player (the #12 pick) to help with cost control issues for years to come.

It's all hypothetical anyway...but fun to discuss.

VAN decline, Virtanen is younger and still has some upside. Virtanen also provides physicality and can play anywhere in your lineup.