This works for me. Not a big fan of paying the 2nd to sign Clifford but it is certainly plausible.

Johnsson is worth 2nd. Not 3rd and another late pick. Just 2nd rounder. That one was a correct value you put up in first one.

I agree. This deal is dependent on the value Clifford brings in the playoffs. If Dubas looks at Clifford as the final piece to get over the hurdle and he’s a good dressing room guy I’m ok to lose the 2nd. But if he just fills a regular 4th line role I’m ok to walk away. You don’t sign him for regular season, you sign him for the playoffs. I already like the impact he’s had on Kapanen’s physicality.

I agree completely but I don’t think the return is important. Engvall and Johnsson for futures, resign Clifford.

Absolutely agree. Turned kappy into scrappy lol. Has a great attitude and work ethic. Playoffs will determine which direction we need to go in a few areas.

That's a bit higher on Dermott for a 1 year deal than I'd like.

I’m making the assumption that he proves himself next season

For 21-22, sure.

but next year he doesn't have arb rights or heavy point totals for a large raise

You’re right sorry I thought you were commenting on my 2021 post

No problem. I'll guess Dermott get 1 x 1 this offseason or 2 x 1.2. Anything above that only works on a long term deal and I'm not 100% sure I want to sign Dermott long term just yet.

Engvall is better than clifford by a fair margin and now youre paying Clifford more to do that less

pro tip guys like clifford are never that guy

I’m not sure I agree. For some reason people think the leafs need offence from their 4th line. Sure if you compare stats and overall player Engvall offers more. But Clifford is the only player on the leafs that change the momentum in a playoff game with his physicality. It’s funny because fans ripped Dubas for lacking toughness. So he trades for a great locker room guy and one of the toughest in the NhL, and now we want to keep Engvall?

We will see this year. All it takes is a couple big hits in a playoff game to change momentum. Leafs have never had that. Blue, Bruins, Vegas, etc. all have those guys

Yeah, that doesnt happen. 4th liners throwing big hits on other 4th liners doesnt change momentum

he literally is better at everything and toughness doesnt matter if you are worse at all the actual hockey things

We’ll just have to disagree on this one. I have a feeling we’ll be having a different conversation after the playoffs are over and we see why Dubas brought Clifford in.

He brought over clifford for cheap depth to make up for the loss of Trevor more and because clifford is decent defensively for a 4th line guy.
Since being a leaf clifford has shown himself to be entirely replacable.
Even when he was at peak during the kings cup runs he was their least used player by a wide margine, both in the regular season and playoffs and even more drastically during important games

Great thing about sports is the players solve these debates for us. I’ll be the first to admit that Engvall has a bigger impact than Clifford in the playoffs. No sense in arguing over it. I love Clifford as a player and he’s one of the few players on the Leafs that has won a cup.

Clifford is better than Moore. Moore literally was a 4th liner

I look forward to the playoffs

Clifford and engvall have already shown us who is better through their play. And winning a cup doesnt mean anything other than he was on a team that won a up

well yeah, so is clifford. clifford has been a 4th liner for like 10 years. Just because he replaced a guy doesnt mean he isnt better, moore was also dirt cheap, thats why LA retained. A better 4th liner is still a 4th limer