What I would try to do

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What has Kase done to earn 4x3? 0 goals and 5 assists in 18 games with the bruins, his only somewhat good season came in 17-18. Hes been mediocre when he’s not injured. He is not getting 3 million yet lmao

Jun. 10, 2021 at 9:17 a.m.

#4

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Quoting: Jiannuccilli

What has Kase done to earn 4x3? 0 goals and 5 assists in 18 games with the bruins, his only somewhat good season came in 17-18. Hes been mediocre when he’s not injured. He is not getting 3 million yet lmao

It's a huge upside contract. Every metric indicates an explosion if he can just stay healthy. His isolated increase of team shots and reduction of opponent shots is up there with the best players in the league. You can wait for him to prove that, but then you're paying at least 5-6 million. I'd rather take a chance like this in the position of the Bruins.

Jun. 10, 2021 at 9:18 a.m.

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Quoting: bhavikp27

You don't leave DeBrusk unprotected.

Yeah, probably not. I'd honestly leave Carlo but I think both can be flipped for good assets. I don't mind playing DeBrusk either. I just figured he'd be lost in the trades, or a return lost to expansion or something. It's very much approximate, but I could've given it more thought, that's fair.

Jun. 10, 2021 at 9:19 a.m.

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Quoting: Kopitar11

LA would never do it,Roy has more offensive upside and is better rounded. Carlo can defend and nothing else. We also just recently signed him to a golden contract.

I agree on all points. Also - Carlo's negative effect on offense really nullifies the help he provides on defense and then some. But league wide perception wise I don't think it's necessarily a trade they'd say no to. Again, I'd be willing to give up DeBrusk and/or propsects as well.

Jun. 10, 2021 at 9:26 a.m.

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Quoting: MelonVK

I agree on all points. Also - Carlo's negative effect on offense really nullifies the help he provides on defense and then some. But league wide perception wise I don't think it's necessarily a trade they'd say no to. Again, I'd be willing to give up DeBrusk and/or propsects as well.

Well,Debrusk is not worth it either,however I'm a little biased here because Roy is one of my favorite Kings,I wouldn't give him up if you offered McAvoy so... however I'm sure the Kings management is on board with me here,because the Kings have many flaws in the lineup,and Roy is not one of them. They're looking to make the team better,definitely not worse.

Jun. 10, 2021 at 9:28 a.m.

#8

bhavikp27

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Quoting: Kopitar11

however I'm a little biased here because Roy is one of my favorite Kings,I wouldn't give him up if you offered McAvoy so...

This is like me saying I wouldn't give up Matt Grzelcyk for prime Drew Doughty.

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Jun. 10, 2021 at 9:30 a.m.

#9

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Quoting: MelonVK

It's a huge upside contract. Every metric indicates an explosion if he can just stay healthy. His isolated increase of team shots and reduction of opponent shots is up there with the best players in the league. You can wait for him to prove that, but then you're paying at least 5-6 million. I'd rather take a chance like this in the position of the Bruins.

Sure, but “upside” doesn’t cost 3mill. You could get Kase for half that right now.

Jun. 10, 2021 at 9:32 a.m.

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Quoting: bhavikp27

This is like me saying I wouldn't give up Matt Grzelcyk for prime Drew Doughty.

He had the worst game of his career last night. Bruins need to upgrade the left D and the bottom six.

Jun. 10, 2021 at 10:12 a.m.

#11

bhavikp27

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Quoting: Kopitar11

He had the worst game of his career last night. Bruins need to upgrade the left D and the bottom six.

Career is a reach. Grzelcyk is better than that and I don't evaluate a player based on one game. It's more about adding more depth/another established top4 D after him.

Jun. 10, 2021 at 10:14 a.m.

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Quoting: Kopitar11

Well,Debrusk is not worth it either,however I'm a little biased here because Roy is one of my favorite Kings,I wouldn't give him up if you offered McAvoy so... however I'm sure the Kings management is on board with me here,because the Kings have many flaws in the lineup,and Roy is not one of them. They're looking to make the team better,definitely not worse.

Well you wouldn't make for a very good gm then...

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Jun. 10, 2021 at 10:23 a.m.

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Quoting: bhavikp27

This is like me saying I wouldn't give up Matt Grzelcyk for prime Drew Doughty.

Quoting: Kopitar11

He had the worst game of his career last night. Bruins need to upgrade the left D and the bottom six.

Quoting: bhavikp27

Career is a reach. Grzelcyk is better than that and I don't evaluate a player based on one game. It's more about adding more depth/another established top4 D after him.

To be fair - I wouldn't give up Grzlcyk for prime Doughty.

I don't think much of the Kings success hinged on Doughty at all, actually. He was better, but not by much than a guy like Hedman currently is for Tampa. Lots of good minutes and easy points to be gathered. Defense is good, but not what reputation will have you believe. Grzlcyk is performing incredibly well in most areas considering his deployment, and I don't even think he's that far behind McAvoy. Their isolated shooting impacts look similar. Anyways I just think the Kings' success revolved around other players more. Koptiar is somehow still a monster for example. Muzzin and Mitchell were really good on D. Toffoli has always been sneaky amazing, etc.

I think Grzlcyk and Reilly is a perfect #1 and #2 combination on the left hand side. I'd prefer a #3 like Nemeth or Hjalmarsson - then you can rotate #3 with Grzlcyk for defense and Reilly for Grzlcyk for offense.

Jun. 10, 2021 at 10:24 a.m.

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Quoting: Jiannuccilli

Sure, but “upside” doesn’t cost 3mill. You could get Kase for half that right now.

I don't know how you just *know* the value of a player in that unique of a situation, but alright

Jun. 10, 2021 at 10:29 a.m.

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Quoting: MelonVK

To be fair - I wouldn't give up Grzlcyk for prime Doughty.

I don't think much of the Kings success hinged on Doughty at all, actually. He was better, but not by much than a guy like Hedman currently is for Tampa. Lots of good minutes and easy points to be gathered. Defense is good, but not what reputation will have you believe. Grzlcyk is performing incredibly well in most areas considering his deployment, and I don't even think he's that far behind McAvoy. Their isolated shooting impacts look similar. Anyways I just think the Kings' success revolved around other players more. Koptiar is somehow still a monster for example. Muzzin and Mitchell were really good on D. Toffoli has always been sneaky amazing, etc.

I think Grzlcyk and Reilly is a perfect #1 and #2 combination on the left hand side. I'd prefer a #3 like Nemeth or Hjalmarsson - then you can rotate #3 with Grzlcyk for defense and Reilly for Grzlcyk for offense.

Yes,the Kings won by team play,especially on the defensive side of the game. They were a mix of today's Islanders and Vegas. Doughty had a lot of help on the blue line,so does Hedman now,and to be honest watching the Tampa Carolina series I've been more impressed with the play of Sergachev than Hedman.

Jun. 10, 2021 at 10:41 a.m.

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Quoting: Kopitar11

Yes,the Kings won by team play,especially on the defensive side of the game. They were a mix of today's Islanders and Vegas. Doughty had a lot of help on the blue line,so does Hedman now,and to be honest watching the Tampa Carolina series I've been more impressed with the play of Sergachev than Hedman.

For what it's worth, Hedman is really good on the powerplay. Shooting impacts suggest that Sergachev creates a little more on 5on5, but a little more comes back his way. Pretty similar players as far as I'm concerned. The circle is complete when I suggest LA Kings legend Erik Cernak is pretty good as well. He's like an inverse Sergachev with good PK impacts.

I'm almost in shock that you didn't attack me for suggesting a big name player on your team isn't as great as often suggested. The funny thing about this is that clerarly the Kings were successful, and a really good team - it's just a question of who I'm attributing that success to, it has nothing to do with me knocking down the Kings as a whole. Whatever I take away from Doughty I must clearly attribute positively to someone else, right?

Jun. 10, 2021 at 11:36 a.m.

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Quoting: MelonVK

For what it's worth, Hedman is really good on the powerplay. Shooting impacts suggest that Sergachev creates a little more on 5on5, but a little more comes back his way. Pretty similar players as far as I'm concerned. The circle is complete when I suggest LA Kings legend Erik Cernak is pretty good as well. He's like an inverse Sergachev with good PK impacts.

I'm almost in shock that you didn't attack me for suggesting a big name player on your team isn't as great as often suggested. The funny thing about this is that clerarly the Kings were successful, and a really good team - it's just a question of who I'm attributing that success to, it has nothing to do with me knocking down the Kings as a whole. Whatever I take away from Doughty I must clearly attribute positively to someone else, right?

I'm not one of those Kings fans that will tell you Doughty is the best or this and that,I know our guys and what they are. Concerning Cernak and Kubalik,both refused to sign with the team,and I hate that thing,players like them,or Adam Fox even who only wanted to play for New York,unless they have some major reason,should not turn away from their team. I'm a Kings fan,but if I was a hockey player and the Sharks drafted me,I burn my Kings jersey for now I'm a shark.

Jun. 10, 2021 at 11:55 a.m.

#18

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Sharks decline, that’s just not enough value compared to what we’re looking for

Jun. 10, 2021 at 3:43 p.m.

#19

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Quoting: MelonVK

I don't know how you just *know* the value of a player in that unique of a situation, but alright

Well it’s actually pretty easy to know. DeBrusk got 3.6 after back to back 20 goal seasons. McAvoy got 4.9 after being one of the top defensemen in the league. 0 goals and 5 assists, or as you like to call it, “upside,” does not get you paid 3 million. The bruins don’t do that. You have to show consistency as well as availability to get paid as a guy like him. He’s shown neither. He’s not a premium player that will demand 8mil+, there won’t be any competition signing him, especially as an RFA.

Jun. 10, 2021 at 4:39 p.m.

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Quoting: Jiannuccilli

Well it’s actually pretty easy to know. DeBrusk got 3.6 after back to back 20 goal seasons. McAvoy got 4.9 after being one of the top defensemen in the league. 0 goals and 5 assists, or as you like to call it, “upside,” does not get you paid 3 million. The bruins don’t do that. You have to show consistency as well as availability to get paid as a guy like him. He’s shown neither. He’s not a premium player that will demand 8mil+, there won’t be any competition signing him, especially as an RFA.

So I think Seattle will probably pick him up because they have a competent department for statistical analysis. Do you measure player skill by the amount of goals they score? cause if you do there's nothing to be gained in this discussion, because we're so unbelievably far apart, and if you don't - I don't know why you would use that as an argument.

Jun. 10, 2021 at 7:38 p.m.

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Quoting: MelonVK

So I think Seattle will probably pick him up because they have a competent department for statistical analysis. Do you measure player skill by the amount of goals they score? cause if you do there's nothing to be gained in this discussion, because we're so unbelievably far apart, and if you don't - I don't know why you would use that as an argument.

No, there’s more to it than that. But, forwards with more months missed to injury than goals scored do not get paid 3mil under any circumstance. Why do you insist that they pay Kase way more than what he’s worth right now? He’s played 18 games with the bruins. He hasn’t been productive with the bruins. What in your mind has he done to get a raise? I’m a big analytics truther, I know he’s not bad, but if you can’t stay on the ice and can’t produce when you are on the ice, that doesn’t get you a raise. If you’re so confident in that, find me one comparable situation.

Jun. 11, 2021 at 2:14 a.m.

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Quoting: Jiannuccilli

No, there’s more to it than that. But, forwards with more months missed to injury than goals scored do not get paid 3mil under any circumstance. Why do you insist that they pay Kase way more than what he’s worth right now? He’s played 18 games with the bruins. He hasn’t been productive with the bruins. What in your mind has he done to get a raise? I’m a big analytics truther, I know he’s not bad, but if you can’t stay on the ice and can’t produce when you are on the ice, that doesn’t get you a raise. If you’re so confident in that, find me one comparable situation.

So - what I suggested, was to sign a contract without comparison, not because the market for it is established, but because there's value to be extracted. The raise in question comes because he's approaching UFA status, not because he did anything in particular the last year or so.

Sign Kase 1y x $3M? pointless, but in my scenario you get 4 years at that cap hit. What if his health returns next year, he explodes as the numbers indicate he could, and you get 3 more year at that cap hit?

Jun. 12, 2021 at 11:46 a.m.

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Quoting: MelonVK

So - what I suggested, was to sign a contract without comparison, not because the market for it is established, but because there's value to be extracted. The raise in question comes because he's approaching UFA status, not because he did anything in particular the last year or so.

Sign Kase 1y x $3M? pointless, but in my scenario you get 4 years at that cap hit. What if his health returns next year, he explodes as the numbers indicate he could, and you get 3 more year at that cap hit?

Sure there’s that upside, but why do that when you could probably get him for 3x2.2 instead? He’s barely played the last 2 years, hasn’t been too productive with the bruins, absolutely makes it reasonable to expect a salary decrease for him. There’s no reason to give him a raise when they could get him for much cheaper on similar term. You have to play and be productive to get a salary raise in the NHL.

Jun. 12, 2021 at 12:54 p.m.

#24