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Until Tuch Comes Back

Created by: CJBear71
Team: 2021-22 Vegas Golden Knights
Initial Creation Date: Sep. 20, 2021
Published: Sep. 20, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
No question - VGK will do this and look to make a move when they need to for Tuch coming back.
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2022
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the NYR
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the CHI
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the VGK
2023
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the VGK
2024
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the VGK
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$77,113,272$285,772$412,500$4,386,728

Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$7,000,000$7,000,000
LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$2,750,000$2,750,000
C, LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$9,500,000$9,500,000
RW
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$5,000,000$5,000,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$5,900,000$5,900,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$1,200,000$1,200,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$1,400,000$1,400,000
LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$750,000$750,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$2,500,000$2,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$2,000,000$2,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$725,000$725,000
RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$5,250,000$5,250,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$8,800,000$8,800,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$5,200,000$5,200,000
LD/RD
UFA - 4
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$2,325,000$2,325,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$2,500,000$2,500,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$725,000$725,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$791,667$791,667
LD
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$762,500$762,500
RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$4,750,000$4,750,000
RW, LW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$885,000$885,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$412,500$412K)
C, LW
RFA - 3

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Sep. 20, 2021 at 2:06 p.m.
#1
exo2769
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Unless Vegas is trying to lawyer up and challenge the LTIR rules...they need to be cap compliant on Day 1...which this team isn't. UNLESS Tuch isn't planning on playing at all in the regular season like Kucherov did last year.

https://www.nhlpa.com/the-pa/cba

Page 261 discusses the upper limit of the cap.

(ii) Upper Limit.
(A) With the exception of the 2012-13 Upper Limit, as set forth in Section 50.5(b)(ii)(A) above, the Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception set forth in Section 50.10(d) and the Performance Bonus Cushion set forth in Section 50.5(h) below for all League Years under this Agreement, no Club shall at any point during a League Year be permitted to have an Averaged Club Salary that exceeds the Upper Limit of the Payroll Range.
(B) Nevertheless, in order to ensure that Clubs may have sufficient time and flexibility to plan their rosters during the off-season, the Upper Limit shall be temporarily raised by ten (10) percent to permit Clubs additional flexibility with their Averaged Club Salaries during the period from July 1 until and including the last day of Training Camp. On the day following the last day of Training Camp, the Upper Limit shall again be lowered to the level as calculated in Section 50.5(b), and all Clubs must once again be in compliance with the Upper Limit from the day following the last day of Training Camp until and including June 30.
Sep. 20, 2021 at 3:27 p.m.
#2
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I think an interesting story line could be, can Patrick do better on the top line than Stephenson? I think they will try it, and I think he steals the spot for a while.

Quoting: exo2769
Unless Vegas is trying to lawyer up and challenge the LTIR rules...they need to be cap compliant on Day 1...which this team isn't. UNLESS Tuch isn't planning on playing at all in the regular season like Kucherov did last year.

https://www.nhlpa.com/the-pa/cba

Page 261 discusses the upper limit of the cap.

(ii) Upper Limit.
(A) With the exception of the 2012-13 Upper Limit, as set forth in Section 50.5(b)(ii)(A) above, the Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception set forth in Section 50.10(d) and the Performance Bonus Cushion set forth in Section 50.5(h) below for all League Years under this Agreement, no Club shall at any point during a League Year be permitted to have an Averaged Club Salary that exceeds the Upper Limit of the Payroll Range.
(B) Nevertheless, in order to ensure that Clubs may have sufficient time and flexibility to plan their rosters during the off-season, the Upper Limit shall be temporarily raised by ten (10) percent to permit Clubs additional flexibility with their Averaged Club Salaries during the period from July 1 until and including the last day of Training Camp. On the day following the last day of Training Camp, the Upper Limit shall again be lowered to the level as calculated in Section 50.5(b), and all Clubs must once again be in compliance with the Upper Limit from the day following the last day of Training Camp until and including June 30.


This doesn't mean that he can't play until the playoffs. He will be placed on LTIR following the last day of training camp, making them cap compliant. They will then need to offload several million dollars when Tuch is ready to come play again, unless he is indeed out until the offseason, which I don't believe is the case here. The stipulation you are mostly quoting is to prevent a team from exceeding the 10% during the offseason, before the player is placed on LTIR. VGK has not done that
Sep. 20, 2021 at 4:19 p.m.
#3
exo2769
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Quoting: mvp13
I think an interesting story line could be, can Patrick do better on the top line than Stephenson? I think they will try it, and I think he steals the spot for a while.
This doesn't mean that he can't play until the playoffs. He will be placed on LTIR following the last day of training camp, making them cap compliant. They will then need to offload several million dollars when Tuch is ready to come play again, unless he is indeed out until the offseason, which I don't believe is the case here. The stipulation you are mostly quoting is to prevent a team from exceeding the 10% during the offseason, before the player is placed on LTIR. VGK has not done that


I'm going to continue to quote the CBA and put in BOLD a few parts to keep in mind. Page 291 goes into examples of different kinds of LTIR situations. Obviously the cap amount adjusts based on the year.
https://www.nhlpa.com/the-pa/cba

Prior to Opening Day Illustrations:

Illustration #4: The Upper Limit in a League Year is $70.0 million. A Player who has an SPC with an Averaged Amount of $2.0 million becomes unfit to play on the last day of Training Camp, and on the same day, his Club exercises the Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception on such Player. On Opening Day, the Club has an Averaged Club Salary of $71.5 million (excluding Earnable Performance Bonuses up to the full amount of the Performance Bonus Cushion). The Club is deemed to have already fully replaced the unfit-to-play Player with any Player or Players on the Opening Day Roster. If these replacements are maintained through the conclusion of the season, the Club's Averaged Club Salary is $71.5 million, as the Club is permitted to exceed the Upper Limit by $1.5 million because of the Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception.

Illustration #4 is the "summer" LTIR method. If Tuch is sent to LTIR on the last day of Camp...summer...then Vegas has reached the cap ceiling. Where is the cap space to bring him back during the season? If we copy the illustration above, but put in exact values. $81.5M limit, but a current cap hit as of today is 82,737,439...THEN Tuch gets sent to LTIR on the last day of training cap with a cap hit of $4.75M...Vegas enters the season with a cap hit of $81.5M. They don't have any place for him to come back when he's healthy.
Sep. 20, 2021 at 7:59 p.m.
#4
Thread Starter
VGK / DRW fan
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Likes: 7
Again - the team title is "Until Tuch Comes Back." Just to be clear - players can start on LTIR, like Kucherov did, like Toronto had Clarkson & Horton on LTIR for an entire season. As long as he is on LTIR, they are compliant to start the season.

Unless VGK has another injury during the season while Tuch is out, and that injury lasts until the postseason, they will have to make moves when he comes back. But that isn't expected until February. In the meanwhile, I expect them to keep some of these guys so they can see what they have for trades. If guys aren't being effective (i.e. Janmark, Dadonov,etc.) they might get traded or waived at that time.
Sep. 21, 2021 at 2:45 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: exo2769
Where is the cap space to bring him back during the season? If we copy the illustration above, but put in exact values. $81.5M limit, but a current cap hit as of today is 82,737,439...THEN Tuch gets sent to LTIR on the last day of training cap with a cap hit of $4.75M...Vegas enters the season with a cap hit of $81.5M. They don't have any place for him to come back when he's healthy.


As stated in my post......

"They will then need to offload several million dollars when Tuch is ready to come play again"

As stated in OP's armchair GM team.....

"VGK will do this and look to make a move when they need to for Tuch coming back."

Nobody is saying he will just be able to come back and play. They obviously will need to make one or several trades if he is ready before the post season. Alternately, it is possible that someone else could get injured and be put on LTIR, which is why they haven't made any trades yet.
exo2769 liked this.
Sep. 21, 2021 at 4:08 p.m.
#6
exo2769
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Quoting: mvp13
As stated in my post......

"They will then need to offload several million dollars when Tuch is ready to come play again"

As stated in OP's armchair GM team.....

"VGK will do this and look to make a move when they need to for Tuch coming back."

Nobody is saying he will just be able to come back and play. They obviously will need to make one or several trades if he is ready before the post season. Alternately, it is possible that someone else could get injured and be put on LTIR, which is why they haven't made any trades yet.


That's very fair. I guess I made an incorrect assumption in the way I read the comment. That it would be relatively easy to do. I think they can get SOME space through the slide edit I made. BUT, some other team is going to take them to the woodshed if Vegas starts the season knowing they'll be FORCED into trading away big cap during the season. Just an opinion from historical examples of being forced into trades. Bickell/Turbo . cheers
 
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