We are back to this point.

And I keep telling you there are much better players available for a team to trade for when they are looking to add.
The market is much deeper, and the number of teams that will add a forward is much shallower that you are realizing.
So if the point of argument is they will trade him prior, the reality is, slim chance of that happening.
Just look at last trade deadline, toss out the moves that were cap moves.
Others were trades to fix in house issues like the Vrana mantha trade. Both guys wanted moved. Much like the Bertuzzi rumors.
You look at the deals that were done, you had Hall, Foligno, Palmeri. Janmark, Bennet, Then some centers like Carter, but we aren't talking about centers here.
Basically 5 guys. Palmeri was red hot, Fogligno and Bennet were picked up for being "playoff grit" guys. Hall was traded for on Name and fact he's a former MVP.

It's a far reach to think Kubalik is going to be traded for. Not at a time when the market looks pretty good right now with names like Miller, Gaudreau Giroux, Pavelski, Radulov, Domi, Namestnikov, Bertuzzi is said to be on the market, and that's just scratching the surface being floated out there. They aren't the only guys. Hell even on CHI they must be questioning at some point if they are better off moving Kane with 1 year left for a larger return. As they are clearly in rebuild and going no where and he's 33. Does he want to resign after next year or compete. because you get more for him now than next year. Especially if his numbers keep falling as everyone will think he's 34 and done. And if you say keep him, then are you really spending 4 mil on cap on a guy who's not performing.

I don't see a trade, and I don't see him as being worth the QO. And as much as you want to say he has value, etc.... you haven't given any evidence that says he's worth a 4 mil contract with term. None.
Because right now there isn't any.

So I'm not holding my breath that he's getting traded for. I said above, that's a very small chance. He most likely finishes the season with CHI. Then they are stuck with a decision of paying a guy 4 million with play that hasn't equaled the salary. There just isn't any doubt about that.

This discussion is clearly going around in circles with no outcome imminent. Take a look at what other Hawks fans are saying about this Kubalik move, its fair to say that the numbers are not lying in that respect and that Kubalik will not be allowed to walk on a free.

Ultimately, there was a cast of people suggesting Strome would be walking free this off season because of his down performance. Haven't seen much of them in recent memory...

I just can't fathom how theres even a suggestion that a bottom 10 team wouldn't try to recoup as much as they can for their assets. Worst case scenario they move him at the TDL if they feel he is not part of the future.

exactly how do you recoup when at TDL there are like 15 guys out there who are probably playing better on everyone's radar and at the end of the year no one is trading due to the out of whack cap hit?
These are the things your not addressing.
I'm giving you the reasons but you're not coming to me with a reason why you think this guy is worth signing for 4+ million.
because deep down you know, he's not. The difference between him and DeBrusk isn't simply asking for a trade. They are the exact same scenario. Cap hits that don't match production and a team stuck in having to deal with that.
You fall into the, we drafted him so we have to get something out of him, throw good after bad mold.
What I'm trying to explain to you is that isn't good management. It would be one thing if you were signing him back at a better cap hit. One that fits the continues decline of production. But that isn't really an option. Because you either QO or he goes.
Unless his year turns around, if the production is still low end in 5v5 play. There isn't much need to make that over payment and CHI is better off not doing it and using the cap hit elsewhere.
But you seem to think retaining control over a guy that isn't producing is more important than actually building the team up. Because they aren't the same thing at this point.
There is a reason they are called show me contracts. It's so teams don't get stuck into the exact mess you want them to get drawn into.

Again, repeating myself. We hold the glass half full POV and you the glass half empty. Cleary for varying reasons but ultimately we cannot find agreement on this topic. Lets recap

This guy in his time with us has performed well, discarding him for a down year is not a necessity due to our current situation. Im not sure how many times I need to repeat this. 4m cap is not a huge deal for our team whilst we begin to rebuild. It also gives him the opportunity to increase his value if he is not considered part of the long term pieces (this may be the case).

Comparing the 2 players, Debrusk plays in a superior system with better players surrounding him, you can argue 5v5 PPG but ultimately BOS situation is far different to CHI. Over the past 3 season Debrusk has 64 points in 143 games a ppg of 0.44 whilst Kubalik plays in a poorly run team and without identity or senior leadership. In the same period Kubalik has got 101 points in 168 games for a ppg of 0.6.

Whilst I agree the current production is not worthy of the deal, what he has done for the team is worthy of an extended opportunity. I am not a fan of just discarding someone who's down or throwing the baby out with the bath water. If it is to be a 1 year 4m QO deal and he performs then it fits perfectly within our timeline as Kane and Toews deals expire at the end of next season, TJ will have 1 year left and Connolly will be gone by that time.

Also in response to retaining a guy who's not producing whilst we build, falls by the waste side as we aren't desperate to add players or up against heavy cap constraints. We could keep and potentially receive a similar package to what NSH got for Arvidsson if it doesn't pan out.

Time will tell who is right in this situation but having watched almost every Hawk game this year, He's not had much puck luck and is still playing at good levels. Allowing him to walk would be a huge mistake.

DeBrusk does not have more help around him. The whole issue with BOS is they have 1 line. It's been that way for years. DK was falling apart and that was painfully obvious. So to say one had more help than the other is kind of absurd. It's not some situation where one had more help than the other. It's hard to really justify that hell his current center is Coyle. That isn't exactly building confidence.

You are also in this mode of rebuilding a lot. Does a rebuilding team trade for Jones? Is rebuilding what you hand Kane at the end of next year. If that's the case you might as well trade him now because I'm sure he doesn't want to hear that and would rather compete after years of being on the bottom rebuilding. Not be in a rebuild for the final 6-7 years of his career. Including the ones he's already spent at the bottom.

It's the attitude that you are AZ or BUF or something. But that doesn't fit with the past moves nor the approach they can take with their best player. Which is where this boils down.
We agree the contract does not match the output. You think it's ok because "rebuild" and who cares if they waste cap on a young player during rebuild they can afford to.
You talk about getting value for assets, well Kane is your biggest one. But we both know they don't want to do that. Which should explain why they got Jones to begin with. That tells you it's not just "rebuild" because if it was he'd be gone.
At some point you need to give guys like Kane help, you don't do that handing out underperforming contracts because "rebuild".
And if the attitude is 1 year, what difference does it make anyway. You walk him to FA at that rate anyhow. You clutch onto a year just for the sake of clutching onto it hoping red will turn into blue?
He's had a show me deal, he did not reach it. It makes plenty of sense to let him walk and use the 4M cap space in other ways.
It would really be one thing if you could bring him back on a favorable contract. But they did that deal back loaded for this very reason. He just didn't live up to his end.

OK yes, our team has been mismanaged. That is why we are in search of a GM and Head Coach. We are in a uncertain situation until they are finalised and the path is confirmed. At the beginning of the season, the hope was to compete, unfortunately that was not going to be on the cards with JC at the helm. I like Jones, I do think we overpaid but hey thats hockey sometimes. Under bowman, we made a habit of getting fleeced with bad trades, the Panarin deal another prime example. Yes there were a couple which he got right but for the most, a lot didn't work out.

We are not in the same situation as AZ or BUF, but due to our mismanagement we are in a poor position of mediocrity. Allowing a guy an opportunity to bounce back is not saying we don't care but more putting faith into a guy who we know has done it before and potentially can do it again. Its not like he is old and his skill is drying up. Kane controls his own destiny with his full NMC and for what he has done for this franchise I can understand him being given the freedom to choose his own path. Yes we do need to give Kane help but we can't even get set on regular lines let alone finding a solution in 1 trade period. The organisation has tried multiple times to find the right guys and now Kaner is getting older and may be inclined to help develop the next generation. I believe thats the hope at this point in time but with a settled management team and a permanent coaching team there may be a different type of hope.

I agree he has had a favourable deal but I don't think he was set up to succeed with the way our team has been the last 2 years when that deal was signed. I would be inclined to give him another year if the coach is happy with it.

I do not agree that he should be allowed to walk for nothing however. That to me is just irresponsible and something our previous management would have done.

You realize any deal he signs would have to be more than 1 year, that just walks him to UFA.
Look he's not a 22 year old guy. He's 26. Forwards peak statistically at 27.
In other words, he should be ripping it up. He's not.
That contract was set up to make sure the last year, he was getting paid. They could have evened that cap hit out some, but the back loaded it knowing the base salary in the final year was going to set his QO.
He was either going to live up to that contract or be set to walk. Because the truth is signing him to a 1 year deal does not really get you anything. You're either roped into a multi year bad deal, a 1 year deal that walks him to UFA, or a small chance on a team, where you are admitting nothing is going to change but you expect different results? Hence carrying a contract that doesn't match performance.
I don't see any kind of winning solution there. Which is why the best solution is to just cut off the limb to stop the spread of the infection and save what you can. AKA use the cap space in a more positive way for the team.
Going and getting a better playing winger with that cap space, who is 1 year older, is not some horrible idea. It's not like you're giving up some 21 year old kid. Your not.
You get another player, roughly the same age, who is playing better, for the same cap hit you'd would have spent on him hoping for better results.
I just don't get how you see that as "bad".
It's really not.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree and move forward. I can't see another solution as we are both rigid on our stance.

You… are… wrong…
@wadejos123 is 100% right

Chicago will qualify him & give him another shot
A 4mil QO is no biggie

U can say he’s having a down season, which is true
But he’s still gonna score around 20goals
And that’s value u just don’t let walk for nothing

He'll be under 20 goals most likely. It's hard to predict those numbers to be honset.
But it's not really the point his production is in the under 3.5 M range at current pace.
They need a goalie, 3 defensemen, and 6 forwards to sign next year. They have like 21 million cap space.
Guys like Strome and Dach are getting raises. Finding a goalie and defenseman are their top priorities.
So while you think the 4 mil is no problem and is worth it, it's not. Dach probably costs at least 3, Strome close to 4, A new goalie probably close to 4, and a defenseman of even 2nd grade pairing at 4.5 range at the lowest. So you are looking at roughly 15 Mil on 4 playesr of 21 mil cap space. They still need 4 forwards and 2 defensemen on the cap. Even if the rest of those guys are close to league min, you are close to the cap. If you add 4 mil on a forward, good luck completing the roster.
This is why he's on CHI acgms. Declining production, no cap space, QO is whack.
So yeah, a QO that does not match is a bigger deal than you make it out to be.
Furthermore, it's not some huge loss. This is a player who's never played over 50% corsi in 3 years. The drop in production frankly should be expected year after year.
Furthermore, if you take away his PP time, which he wouldn't get on other teams, He's at 7 goals 11 points on the year.
That doesn't speak of 4 mil per year.
To give you a fair comparison. Heinen even strength production last year was 6 goals 13 points. The 5v5 ws 6 goals 12 points. In 45 games. He hit the market as a UFA
He signed a 1 year 1M per deal.
You are looking at roughly the same production.
I don't want to hear how he's worth 4 Mil. He's not even close.

But he is WORTH not letting walk for nothing
And the 4mil QO isn’t gonna hurt Chicago at all
They aren’t letting him walk, now matter how long u drone on about it

Again…. You’re just wrong here

again. You can look at a guy with the same performance last year with BOS.
Roughly equal, not propped up with PP minutes. They walked him. He got a 1M 1 year deal.
You think you have gold. The teams don't. They are a bit more honest about it. They don't play guys 4M for that level of performance.

No, i “don’t think i have gold”
I’m a Sabres fan dude
I don’t have a dog in this fight

Comparing players’ situations on BOS & CHI is RIDICULOUS
Boston is a team competing for the Cup
So while they could better use the $4mil in Cap space for a proven entity to help them win now,
Chicago can wait on the hopeful potential that Kubalik has shown (fairly recently) & hope he can get back to that high ceiling he’s shown

Guys in the NHL are overpaid ALL THE TIME
And for various reasons

Your argument is one of the worst I’ve heard on here in a while
Just stop
Take the “L”
You’ve earned it

And in your warped view….
CHI won’t pay Kubalik a $4mil QO, but the Pens will sign him for $3mil….
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

That extra mil is really the deal breaker, huh?
Wow dude, WOW

You act like his QO is 9 mil lmao

$4mil QO = too much
But I’m cool if my team signs him for $3mil
😂😂😂
Can’t make this stuff up

No I don't. But I don't see why you think CHI has to pay 4+ mil for a guy when other teams are paying 1M per for roughly the same production at 5v5 and even strength on guys who aren't getting PP time to boost their numbers.

You seem to think that's good for CHI. I don't. Does that make me wrong? Or maybe you should re-examine you're thought process on the guys contract.

The 3M there is a high. Just because I don't want to here people say he won't sign for that. Truth is he could very well end up like heinen taking 2M or less on a show me deal.
You seen not to look at the comparable that I posted on them. It's basically the same production so far this season as him last year. BOS wouldn't even QO him on under 3M.
So it begs the question. Why should CHI QO their guy with the exact same production at 4?
Maybe you'd like to explain that to me?
At the end of the day, you aren't getting what you think you are getting. The front office knows this. Just like BOS knew last year.
The production similarities are very close, the RFA status is the same.
You can't sign him to a 1 year deal either, as it just walks him to FA to begin with. What is the point of that really?
Put a guy who's downward trended for 2 years in the same place to downward trend again at a high cap cost so he becomes a FA?
You're options suck. That's the truth. The best one is to let them walk. It's the same decision that BOS made, and I'm drawing from one clear cut example to another, that it's probably the best choice for CHI as well.
But go on with your bad opinions.

I explained the big difference between Boston & Chicago is that Boston is trying to win NOW
So they’re gonna value current production more
And Chicago isn’t anywhere near competing for a Cup,
so a player’s ceiling he may reach is more valuable

It’s not a hard concept,
u apparently just have no clue how to discern it


Let’s make a bet
If CHI does qualify, or sign Kubalik long term….
then u leave this site & never come back
If they don’t qualify him, then I’ll walk away

Kubalik at a 4.0mil QO = no way
Zucker at a 5.5mil cap hit = “good rental”

😂😂😂
Dude, it’s LAUGHABLE
Especially when Kubalik is outscoring Zucker

Congrats on not making much sense though

This is such a bad comment.
BOS competing for a cup. FFS Coyle is their 2C. Their goalie is gone.
Everyone knew BOS was taking a massive step back this year. EVERYONE.
It has nothing to do with anything.
Fact is, you don't want to look at the numbers of the comparable because you realize how bad you're view is.
It's virtually the same production so far. For a guy in the same exact place contract wise.
BOS wouldn't even offer Heinen the under 3M he was owed. That was probably a very smart move on BOS part.
So the question is why should CHI get roped into over paying a guy who isn't performing to his contract value?
Maybe they should sign him to 6 year deal at that rate so you can be stuck with a long term bad deal

Boston is making the playoffs
Chicago is one of the worst teams in the West

WOW

TAKE THE BET

Well you seem to think 3M for Kubalik is fine for the pens but 4M for the hawks is terrible

I see it's your first time interacting with pharrow on CF haha